OCD Action

Unregistered

Hi everybody

I just thought I'd start off by saying stay away from those new 'poweful' Cect C5 iphone copies that have come out. I spent £194 (including extra for expidited delivery) and it finally arrived today, 2 weeks later. I plugged it in. First problem, it came on by itself and wouldn't power down. After 10 minutes, the phone crashed, and since then, even after hours of charging both batteries, it will not power up. My PC advises that it has malfunctioned, when connecting it via the USB connector, so I'm now out £194. I am so p****d off, especially as I've yet to get a reply from the seller - I think in the circumstances I should get a reply within 2 hours.

Anyway, on to more important matters. As many of the existing forum members know, I suffer from Pure-o. The nature of my condition is that I get sexually attraction to adolescent girls, which makes it difficult for me socially, especially as I get 'nothing' for women and don't feel attraction (this in itself probably makes me a paedophile). Now, this has been ongoing for years and in that time, I have lost my ability to understand many things that others take for granted, including caring for other people, emotions, the works etc.

Now, I have never encountered a pure-o sufferer, such as myself who has actually offended. The question I want to ask is would you consider this an OCD sufferer. Personally, I think I would. Because if this is not the case, then I cannot possibly be OCD, because its Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Even though its pure-o, the rules are the same, surely? Remember, contamination sufferers act on their problems by cleaning, for example. Those whom are compulsive checkers, check.

I even have a theory, based on a documentary of M-F and F-M transsexuals who acted on this compulsion, but realised they didn't actually want this.

I am not trying to justify convicted offenders. However, I would like to point out that I feel that I have a valid point that needs to be raised.

Comments?

Giles

Thu Apr 8 2010 15:26:18 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hiya Giles -

rest assured, man. There is no doubt to this person that you, despite not acting in any way as a consequence of your obsessions, rank with others who do. See it this way: cleaners and checkers are, in your view, perhaps 'different' from you, in that they perform (non-criminal and relieving) acts. You don't act. But as you know, the actions in cleaners and checkers have little effect: I mean, they ameliorate intense fears for a brief time, but in general the same heavy obsessions return. So, despite their enormous time consumption, they don't gradually decrease the gravity of the condition itself.

If you get my line of thinking, then you'll know by now that the obsessions are the essence of the problem. The core of the gravity of OCD. Acting or not acting upon them is rather inconsequential in terms of deciding on the 'truth' of the illness itself.

Weird to say it: you HAVE the disorder, despite your obvious unhappiness with the truth of this statement.

I have to add: acting out your fantasies would of course not decrease your fears, but hugely increase your feelings of guilt. Therein, yes, lies the difference IMHO (and bear in mind: you would never, as a true paedophile would, derive pleasure from acting out your fantasies; because they are actually fears).

I tried to express myself diligently and very clear at the same time. I hope I succeeded. If you have questions left, please PM me if they are of a delicate nature.

Hold you head up, mr. Gigolo!

Cuthbert.

Thu Apr 8 2010 15:38:24 #
Truddles
Member

Hi Giles,

Even though its pure-o, the rules are the same, surely? Remember, contamination sufferers act on their problems by cleaning, for example. Those whom are compulsive checkers, check.

This is my own view on the subject.

I have contamination OCD and yet I can't clean as I'm afraid of making any perceived contamination worse

From my limited understanding of OCD it doesn't matter what the obsession is it's an obsession. Some people just have the obsession and they don't have compulsions, but for those that have compulsions we are all doing the same thing. We're carrying out the compulsions in order to keep us and our loved ones. Ok in carrying out the rituals we're increasing our anxiety but we do it initially to protect ourselves not to harm others, it just gets out of control as we continue to remain safe.

People with contamination OCD don't contaminate, they clean because they fear that they will harm themselves or others if they don't attempt to clean the perceived contamination. Cleaning is their compulsion.

On the whole checkers check to try to ensure that they haven't done anything unsafe, such as left the tap on or left the door unlocked. They check because they are trying to protect themselves and others.

I don't know much about 'Pure-O' but from what I've heard and I could be wrong, don't people with 'Pure-O' deal with the obsessions by cancelling the thoughts in their minds rather than carrying out physical compulsions? I suppose you could call it a mental compulsion.

Either way it all boils down to the same thing we are all trying to prevent harm to ourselves and others. It's just the thoughts of preventing harm become so entrenched that we end up causing ourselves more anxiety.

This is obviously causing you great distress and if supposing you were a pedo it wouldn't you'd derive great pleasure. It's causing you distress as it's OCD.

I hope this helps.

Trudy

Thu Apr 8 2010 16:32:21 #
Unregistered

Its an interesting subject, because I believe that there is water in my theory. What if there are certain sex-offenders who are actually OCD, but now suffer the stigma of never being recognised as OCD, because of a mistake they made. So now they could suffer the consequences of avoidence and response prevention therapy (aversion)

Thu Apr 8 2010 16:33:30 #
Truddles
Member

What if
That's definitely something that OCD would say.

Thu Apr 8 2010 16:44:38 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Truddles is right -

she hits it on the head with that remark on doubting. Giles: you seem to feel guilty towards real paedos, inasmuch as you are trying to exculpate them by thinking they might be suffering from OCD too. With this strategy you are only blaming yourself again, in my view. Not necessary, man!

A real sex-offender usually is not really an OCD person. He (almost always a he) has the freedom to abstain from entering dangerous (to him) territory: parks and swimming pools with small kids, playgrounds, and so on. So he can avoid the urge himself. Even if he sees a young one, he can turn around and run away.

But you can't simply turn off those unwanted thoughts; just as we can't.

To me there is an ocean of differences here.

Mind: I am trying to support you, not just to 'analyze' you (for which I'm not qualified anyway).

In brief: real paedo: lack of conscience and feelings of guilt, derives pleasure from his deeds.
You: overactive conscience and excess guilt, you'd feel terminally guilty if you acted upon those dreaded fantasies.

Feel free to criticize me. I can handle that. And will reply.

Cheers, Cuthbert (your friend).

Thu Apr 8 2010 17:59:19 #
Unregistered

You answered the question quite well cuthbert. When I first joined the forum though, I hated blankly pedos. I'm still none too fond of them. However, they are tormented, damaged people. Remember, my sister-in-law is a psychotherapist and tries to help this demographic.

Yeah, I am OCD, but I don't seem to feel the guilt and torment anymore

Fri Apr 9 2010 10:18:43 #
Unregistered

I think there’s a myth that all paedophiles feel no guilt or shame. I watched a documentary about them and was surprised to feel quite sorry for some of them, those who were riddled with guilt and wanted help to change (through surgery etc). However, even with a guilt-ridden paedophile there is a clear distinction between him or her and an OCD sufferer like Giles.

I agree with Trudy, I think ‘Pure O’ does involve mental compulsions, at least in the majority of cases.

I also agree with Trudy over contamination issues. I carry out my compulsions to avoid the contaminant I fear. I do find, however, that carrying out my rituals decreases my anxiety. Apart from being cold at certain times of year, when washing the clothes as I do, outside with little on, I experience immense satisfaction. I feel my efforts are removing the dreaded contamination and I would say my mood is one of relief bordering on pleasure. On a warm sunny day, I can actually enjoy my crazy antics in the garden!

Giles, you said “Remember, contamination sufferers act on their problems by cleaning, for example. Those whom are compulsive checkers, check“. Again, I agree with Trudy. A contamination sufferer doesn’t contaminate, as Trudy says. When we are checkers, it is a case of carrying out a checking compulsion to alleviate the actual problem, which is the obsession itself. It might be an obsession of being burgled or the house catching fire. The compulsion is then to check to ensure these obsessional thoughts do not become reality.

I know you have spoken about certain transgender cases before Giles, and I can see your way of viewing these. I see a difference, but don’t know how to put it into words. I’ll give it some thought!

I certainly don’t agree with your comparison with contaminationers and checkers, for the reasons already given.

Fri Apr 9 2010 13:46:46 #
Truddles
Member

I'm not finding it easy to write coherently at the moment I'm pleased therefore that people have understood what I was trying to convey. Thanks

Fri Apr 9 2010 14:01:31 #
Unregistered

Trudy, my mind is being affected by the new medication, so I am not going to understand what I am saying before long. Actually, no change there then!

Fri Apr 9 2010 14:40:07 #
Truddles
Member

Then you're in good company - Welcome to my world

Fri Apr 9 2010 14:41:56 #
Unregistered

While my mind is relatively clear (off one medication about to start another) I wanted to return to this.

Giles, I can’t recall whether you have spoken on the forum about other symptoms, so, just in case you haven’t, I’ll avoid actually referring to them. But, so many symptoms you’ve mentioned from your past have been OCD, and this is no exception.

I don’t think your theory does hold water, because by now it would be emerging that some people who have offended actually have OCD and were carrying out their compulsions. Everything I have read over the years says the opposite. Recently, I have been rereading books by Fred Toates and Jeffrey Schwartz, both of whom state that it is unheard of for a person with OCD who suffers intrusive thoughts of harm or of a sexual nature to actually put these thoughts into practice.

I have a close friend who fears she will strangle or stab her children. She used to be convinced she would push them over the edge of cliffs when the family was on holiday. The only compulsions were to avoid knives and cliffs etc or mental ones which were a vain attempt to neutralize the thoughts. This kind of symptom cannot be compared with ones of checking and contamination in the way in which you have, for the reasons we have already given. Let’s take my fear of dog mess. Do you think my compulsions ever include rushing over to touch it if ever I see any in the street? All my compulsions are to avoid it, every minute and imaginary particle!

No-one with a paedophilia obsession is ever going to experiment with what they fear. It just doesn’t happen. The conscience would not permit it, and you are one of the most caring and decent people I know.

Mon Apr 19 2010 14:41:22 #
sanchez
Member

tricias comments about experimenting are true and conscience but the compulsions to allay ones fears can generate a different ritual which is less harmful but outwith the scope of societys understanding. I think giles is on the right track in relation to aversion therapy and this has been my obsession for a number of years and i feel guilty and ashamed for my actions but i have not personally involved anybody else in my obsession

Wed Apr 21 2010 11:41:52 #
Unregistered

Sanchez, I know of people who have delved a little deeper into their paedophilia fears. I don’t want to be too graphic here because of the nature of the symptom. It’s fine for anyone to ‘experiment’ with their gay OCD fears, but naturally this is so very different.

I still maintain that no-one with paedophilia OCD would actually lay a finger on a child. That doesn’t mean they won’t be driven to view things in a vain attempt to reassure themselves that they are not in fact paedopilies. I say vain attempt, because OCD can lie to us in the cruelest ways.

I'm reading between the lines here, Sanchez, but I don't believe you should feel either guilt or shame.

Wed Apr 21 2010 12:34:53 #
Unregistered

I’ve just been re-reading some of Fred Penzel’s articles, looking for something on this obsession. He covers fears of being gay and fears of harming a child (which does include obsessions of sexual abuse).

In the article on fears of harming a child, Fred Penzel states:

“A complicating factor is that sufferers tend to mistakenly believe that the obsessive thoughts are their own real thoughts, and therefore must be important and paid attention to, rather than actually being irrelevant and the product of bad brain chemistry.”

In another paragraph he writes:

“They might also get physical dysperceptions. By this I mean experiencing sensations that they:
moved their hand in an almost imperceptible way, as if to strike their child, or to fondle them in an improper way
thrust their pelvis toward their child in a sexual way or leaned or brushed against sexual areas of their child's body, or held them in their lap while moving in a sexual way
somehow pushed or shoved their child because they wanted to make them fall or injure themselves
somehow exposed a private area of their body to their child

These are not just thoughts, but physical sensations in their bodies that seem very real and almost (but not quite) certain. There has always been a question as to whether or not symptoms of this type may fall into a gray area between OCD and the tics seen in Tourette's Disorder. This has yet to be determined.”

The following is from a section on exposure and response prevention in treating a young man with gay obsessions. Obviously, there are some suggestions which would not be considered acceptable if the obsession were replaced by a paedophilia fear.

Fred Penzel writes:

“The ultimate goal is for a person to be able to tell him or herself, ‘Okay, so I can think about these things, but I don't have to do anything about them‘."

Fred Penzel’s therapy suggestions:

“These included such things as being around his friends, having his friends joke about being gay, hugging another guy, going to a movie with just another guy, looking at pictures of attractive guys or girls, watching romantic scenes in movies, just hearing the word 'gay' or similar words, seeing gay characters on TV or in movies, looking at gay magazines, visiting gay websites, etc.”

Wed Apr 21 2010 13:22:35 #
SteveO
Member

Gigolo,

I have had an escalating OCD where my brain wud latch onto something worse if it cud read about it. I was so highly anxious that it wud feel that my own mind had it in for me and was simply playing games.

I had what you had for a period of time. But it got replaced by something worse.

I can imagine there is nothing worsefor u from your point of view.

What i concluded despite my conditions is the brain is fantastic and brilliant at problem solving and looking for flaws....

If I tell you you have OCD and you should feel no shame in these thoughts..

u will for one brief moment respond and feel good about yourself

but the mechanics are still there

You say you dont feel guilty about your thoughts any more....

and u probably dont....but thats only to fool you all over again to make you think you do actually have a problem

basically the brain has found a new way to upset you...

what the problem is 4 most ppl is they cant stop the triggers....

I know i have OCD...but i raised a question on another forum

even though i know i have OCD and even though i have concluded every path as ridiculous, then why does it persist.

the answer must be habit, brain chemistry, triggers.

this is my new approach and im going to treat it as background crap in my head

to find reason behind behaviour wont affect a habit like tourettes it just is what it is..

hopefully one day it will go completely

Fri Apr 30 2010 1:45:46 #