OCD Action

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Lauren
Member

Hi,

I can't remember whether I have posted something like this before but I am worrying about having done something bad at school where I work. A few months ago I had to record somebody's GCSE music coursework and when I was in the room with another pupil they said "miss why don't you pretend to be her and she'll get a better mark" and we had this discussion about how it's fraud and i'll get fired. They then left the room and I had to record this girl's piano piece and I kept getting images of doing it for her. I wrote loads of stuff down about what I could remember and I remember saying " I can't do it for you". She eventually rerecorded it the following day and got it perfect because I asked the teacher to do it with her.

Anyway, now I am worrying that I have cheated with other pupils and forgotten I have done it, or that I have done it and am blaming my OCD on it, or that I have no morals and I have committed gross misconduct, and I don't know whether my thoughts are memories or just random images. Yesterday when I was at school recording their coursework I went to go and get other people so they were all in the room together as opposed to me being alone with them and the recorder because I felt uncomfortable so there were other people in the room when I was pressing record. Do you think teenagers would gossip had I have done somebody's work for them? My friend says that this would be a big piece of gossip around school, because it is not normal behaviour and also teachers when they are marking work they have checks that they put into place so they know that the work is genuine. But what if I did their work on the piano for them and messed up on purpose so I sounded like them? But surely, if I were going to cheat for them I would do it perfectly? I am so confused

Sorry this is long-winded, it's the only way I can explain.

Lauren

Sat Jul 9 2011 8:55:44 #
Tess
Member

Hi Lauren
Good to hear from you again and yes you have posted before about this problem. If you click on Member below your avatar you will get a list of all your previous posts and the responses. You haven't done anything inappropriate, it's just your OCD lying to you but I am interested as to why it has reared it's head again. Have you been under extra stress recently? It can also be hormonally driven so you might find it helpful to keep a diary of when these fears really trouble you. If you can work out the trigger then you can take action to mininmise it's effect.

Sat Jul 9 2011 9:27:59 #
Truddles
Member

Hi Lauren,

Yes you posted about that in April. Go to http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/mind-playing-tricks to see the responses that you got.
If you had no morals you wouldn't be so worried you'd be boasting. These are random images the sort that everyone gets and for those without OCD they are either so fleeting that they don't realise that they've had them or they acknowledge them and act accordingly. So another teacher without OCD would get the thoughts that you're getting and just ignore them as they would realise that they weren't true.
The more you try to rationalise a false memory the more real it seems to be in our minds, it's the OCD bully at work.
With regards to whether the pupils would gossip about it, your friend is right the answer is a simple yes. It's human nature to do so and gossip quickly reaches the staff room.
Because of the OCD your confidence and self esteem are low and you need to work on building them up. This way you can relearn to have faith in yourself. You need to hold onto the fact that these are OCD thoughts and not memories.
You've got the school holidays coming up in which to concentrate on yourself and to start to regain your confidence. And with help and support you can get it back

Sat Jul 9 2011 9:30:46 #
tizzkins
Member

Hi Lauren firstly its nice to hear from you as i dont seem to have heard from you much lately. Its always nice when friends get back on the forum. Secondly this is in no doubt your ocd playing its mind games again. I can recall other posts that you have sent and mostly they do centre around your being in a position of trust and the children. I am sure you recall yourself. Ocd is attacking you as it does with a lot of us at a subject (in your case children) with such horrible thoughts as that is what ocd does. Considering your position as a teacher it really doesnt surprise me that this is one of the things your ocd has chosen. You do know deep down that you would never ever do anything inappropriate regarding the children whatever ocd is trying to tell you that you have done. I know its difficult and i am not pretending to be an expert on this far from it but i do think that sometimes as i have said before i can see other peoples dilemmas with ocd a lot clearer than my own. In your case you are trying to find the answers to questions that dont really need to be asked such as like you were saying with the gossip would the children gossip. Theee thoughts are just ocd trying to get you to hang on to thoughts that you dont need to. Its all false messages from the brain and i for one think that the longer you let the ocd play its game the more real the thought becomes. Just a thought but have you ever read the book Brain Lock it really is quite good and i would reccomend it to anyone. I am going through it myself at the moment and slowly very slowly trying to put the advice in the book into practice.

Sweetheart i know you find this hard but believe me you have done nothing wrong its just your brain sending you false messages. Distract yourself from the thoughts because in all honesty no matter how long you think about this thought for you will know you will never get one hundred per cent certainty. The only thing to do is not listen to the ocd trust in the fact that you yourself do know you would never do anything inappropriate such as what you are concerned about. Trust in this fact and refocus on something else such as reading a book or a relaxing walk. I know its not easy but you have to try to refocus and then you will see the whole situation in a different view.

Take care Liz x

Sat Jul 9 2011 9:57:25 #
Lauren
Member

Hi,

I haven't been on for a while, a combination of internet not working properly and I thought I was getting a bit better so I was trying not to rely on it so much. I didn't mean to cause any offence

All of your advice is really good and I find it really hard to accept it though because all that's going through my head is "how do they KNOW the pupil would gossip about it"? Like, if I were a pupil and a teacher did my coursework for me i'd either brag about it or feel really guilty. But also, wouldn't I be trying to cover my tracks? By begging the pupil not to say anything? You don't just do things and forget about them do you? Like, 'oh i'll do your coursework for you' and that's the end of it, I would surely feel guilty and be trying to cover it up? But why do I have the images? Because if I KNEW I hadn't done it I wouldn't be giving it so much thought would i?

I feel very unhappy

Sat Jul 9 2011 15:00:40 #
Tess
Member

Hi Lauren
It's OCD and it's a malfunction in the communication system in your brain between the central part (basal ganglia) and the part which controls your thoughts. This is why it's so hard for you to accept that your thoughts are wrong even when the rational part of your brain is screaming commonsense at you because the malfunction is too convincing. The more you engage with the thoughts and try to rationalise them the harder it will become, you will just go round and round in ever increasing circles of anxiety.
Whether or not the pupil would gossip is irrelevant, the only important question is have you done anything unprofessional and the answer is 100% NO, in fact the mere thought of doing so is anathema to you which is why your OCD has focussed on it. No jury on this planet would convict you the only person who is convicting you is yourself.

Sat Jul 9 2011 17:37:44 #
Lauren
Member

I sit in the room with the pupil and the recording machine, and I have to announce their names and what they are playing before they begin, and I have this image of me sitting there saying all this stuff and then doing it for them and making mistakes on purpose, but surely if you were going to cheat for somebody you'd do it perfectly? I made sure i got other pupils yesterday so I wasn't in the room alone with anybody, the only person I have been alone with is a girl who is very quiet and she comes every week and this girl was supposed to be singing for her and she didn't turn up so I had to do it at first, and then she came and rescued us, why do I have the image it is confusing me! Because it is making me think it has happened and if I knew it hadn't happened I wouldn't be thinking about it surely? I am going round in circles.

Sat Jul 9 2011 18:08:11 #
tizzkins
Member

Lauren i really feel for you when you say if you knew you handnt done it you wouldnt be giving it so much thought. Think of it this way its the ocd that is making you think the way you are thinking at the minute. In all honesty and i know this isnt easy but ask yourself one question (this is exactly what i do when i am in the middle of an ocd moment and it does help) anyway just think logically "do you really think that you would ever do such a thing for a pupil" and i bet the answer is no. Ocd seems to focus in on our what i can only describe as our "worst nightmares" things we wouldnt dream of doing and that is where the answer to ocd lies you know i am sure that deep down you would not jeopardise your position as a teacher to do someones piano piece. Yhis is what you should focus on not what you might have done which is really just ocd sending you false messages but focus on the fact that you know deep down you wouldnt do such a thing. At this point i really shouldnt be feeding into your reassurance but going back to whether or not we know the pupil would gossip is simple if you think about the aqe of the pupils you teach are then you know that they are at the age where it doesnt matter to them whether they gossip or not if it is something substantial to gossip about they will do it. Once again i say to you this is irrelevant as you know you havent done anything i am just trying to get a point across. I really want to help you but i am not sure if i am helping.

My thoughts are with you.

Liz xx

Sat Jul 9 2011 20:45:44 #
Lauren
Member

Liz, you are helping and I really appreciate it. Do you think if I had done it I would be feeling different though, like panicked or wanting to cover my tracks?

Sat Jul 9 2011 22:52:29 #
tizzkins
Member

Lauren sorry i went off line before your reply. This is just my opinion and as you know i suffer quite bad with ocd myself. The one thing i have learnt which has helped me is this if you have to say to yourself "did i" or "didnt i" in answering a thought the chances are that it is ocd sending false messages. How do i know this well as i said i am no expert its just what i have found that "if" you had done something you wouldnt be having to debate did i or didnt i you would simply just know. And in answer to your last question which i think you answered yourself really but my opinion is definitely yes you would be panicked and trying to cover your tracks but then when you get over this thought which you will you will be able to see more clearly that you are not the sort of person to do something in the first place which will also help you. I have sometimes gone down the street and thought i had said things outloud lets just say not very nice things to other people. I really thought i had said something directly rude to people. Then as i got a grip on the thought i realised that for one i am not that much of a rude peroson and i wouldnt dream of saying such things and also the other point to this for me is the fact that i am not even that brave to say such things so i know deep down no matter what the ocd is trying to tell me that i havent done anything wrong its just false messages. The problem with false messages is that the more you listen into them the harder it is to get to grips with the thought. In your case you could try saying to yourself something like "welll how many times have i had thoughts like this before regarding the children"? and if you think about it you will realise that this last one is just the latest one on the list and nothing has ever happened before when i have spent time worrying. The thing is Lauren that if you think about it chances are that if you had done something before something would have come of it at sometime or another the fact that it hasnt just goes to show this is ocd playing mind games with you and zooming in at one of your most vunerable topics children because ocd knows with you that it can get to you through your working with children with me its electricity and water. I am not saying its easy far from it or no one would be on this forum but when you start to gain knowledge on how ocd works it gives you the tools to fight back. If you havent already try reading Brain Lock thats what i found has helped. As i said before and i realise maybe not everyone will agree with me but what i have said is just my opinion.

Take care and let me know how you get on. I am thinking of you.

Liz x

Sun Jul 10 2011 7:12:53 #
BT
Member

Lauren, I agree with those who say the more you go over this in your mind the worse it will be. I would keep as busy as possible. Try to distract yourself. The OCD will always come up with another argument, another what if. You won’t win the battle by seeking reassurance from yourself or others.

Maybe you could try approaching it from another angle. I know this is contradicting my previous remark about distraction and focusing on something else. But, you could imagine it has happened and ask whether it would be the end of the world if it had. No-one can give you the 100% guarantee you desperately need. It’s the same for each of us.

Sun Jul 10 2011 13:27:58 #
Lauren
Member

Thank you all for your comments, I really appreciate your help especially when you all have your own things going on x

Sun Jul 10 2011 15:39:10 #
Lauren
Member

Hi everybody,

A week has gone by and I am still really worried I have committed this act of cheating, now I am thinking what if I did it as it wasn't a 'real' recording and what if they haven't told anybody or are not bothered, I was in school today and I heard nothing to suggest I was in trouble, I imagine this kind of thing would get out quickly and I would KNOW and feel different, but I still have the images of doing it and now I have voices along with it, it is like a play in my head but not sure what are memories and what is fiction.

Thanks

Thu Jul 21 2011 22:22:18 #
Unregistered

Hi Lauren

I think you've just got to know that it's just OCD. Unfortunately the more you think about something you are frightened of the more powerful the thought becomes, the more you think about it the more real it seems, like you are making false memories, it's so hard but that is the way that OCD works. The more you ask for reassurance the more unsure you become. I used to ask for reassurance constantly but now i've stopped doing that I have so much more confidence in my own opinion and memories so I don't need to seek reassurance so much anymore. I found that the best thing you can do is distract yourself by learning about OCD and how it works and try and get CBT. Unfortunately the only way that it starts to diminish is when you get angry with ocd and fight against it and the best way to do that is with having a knowledge of it.

Fri Jul 22 2011 8:24:17 #
Tess
Member

Hi Lauren
I think you need to have a chat with your GP and get a referral to your local mental health team. If you are getting voices along with the thoughts then maybe a medication review would be sensible.

Fri Jul 22 2011 9:15:32 #
BT
Member

I also hear ‘voices’ which used to induce panic, but after speaking to a friend with schizophrenia and OCD, she quickly reassured me that my voices are a feature of my OCD.

Lauren, I realise you are in a panic over this, but analysing etc will make it even worse. I know you can’t see that at the moment and the natural reaction, when we feel in this distressed state, is to ask for reassurance from others and from within our own minds. The trouble is it will make the situation worse. We search for 'evidence' and it's impossible to find. You will not recall NOT doing the thing you fear, obviously that's impossible, but the OCD will lead you to continue to visualise the 'event' and the more you do this, the more you will believe it happened. You will play it all out in your mind, often with voices included.

Fri Jul 22 2011 10:09:08 #
Ratwomble
Member

Hi Lauren,

Please go and see your GP as soon as you possibly can. You need to get a repeat prescription of whatever it is that you were on that helped you, and then be sure not to run out.

Hearing voices needs to be dealt with by a medical professional.

Please call your GP now and get an emergency appointment.

David

Fri Jul 22 2011 12:15:56 #
BT
Member

I do agree that it would be a good idea for Lauren to see a professional (preferably a psychiatrist) but I also would hate to alarm her over the voices. Several of my friends and I also hear voices. It depends how they manifest themselves, obviously, but they can be a feature of OCD. I’m not sure if many GPs would be able to differentiate, but I realise Lauren probably needs to see her GP in order to be referred.

Fri Jul 22 2011 14:08:49 #
Lauren
Member

My voices are like me talking to myself, but I don't control it, if that makes sense. They say "she did it" and "she cheated and did something wrong" like i am talking about myself in the third person. Then I get this image of me doing it, and it panics me, and then I close my eyes and sit quietly and think whether I can remember doing it or not and how I felt, then I get even more confused.

I have got a supply of tablets to last me now until my doctors appointment in august.

I wish I knew what the truth was, because my friend David says I would definitely had been found out by now due to gossip as students have morals and I am underestimating their integrity, they would tell on me because it's not right for a teacher to do what I am worried I have done.

Fri Jul 22 2011 15:11:03 #
Ratwomble
Member

Lauren,

You didn't do it. I know you didn't do it. The people here know you didn't do it. You know you didn't do it.

Your OCD has convinced you that you might have done it. It is convincing you to look for proof that can't exist because you can't prove a negative. You must trust yourself, and us here.

You didn't do anything wrong. You have an illness. You are getting treatment. You Will get better

David

Fri Jul 22 2011 15:30:32 #
Lauren
Member

If I knew I hadn't done it then surely I wouldn't be worrying about it...I just want to know the answers

I know I wouldn't touch a child, and I know I wouldn't do anything like a paedophile does, but this is to do with my job and the idea I have done it panics me because I don't want to lose my job but what if I thought "it's not a big deal" and did it and forgot about it, or the kids don't care and haven't told anybody, I need answers

Fri Jul 22 2011 15:33:43 #
Allison
Member

David is so right. None of us here believe you did it.One of the worst things of ocd is self doubt - I know as I convince myself that I have touched something contaminated where, if I didnot have ocd, I would be able to see it would have been physically impossible to do so. It is really cruel when we feel we carn't trust our own judgement anymore as our mind is busy playing tricks on us.I trully understand how frustraing and upsetting this is for you but like us all you really need to try and stop annalyings everything you do. Take care

Fri Jul 22 2011 17:47:39 #
BT
Member

Lauren, those voices are the same as mine and are a part of your OCD.

It’s a case of those of us with intrusive thoughts desperately needing to recall we have not done something. No-one can recall NOT doing anything and that’s how the OCD twists our thinking. Please believe us, the more you question yourself the worse it will be. You have to stop analysing it. Try to keep your mind busy with other things. The other approach is to say 'so what if I did do it' and I know you don't wish to try that form of therapy (which I understand).

Sat Jul 23 2011 10:23:34 #
tizzkins
Member

Lauren sweetheart i really feel for you but all i can say is to re-iterate what i have already said before this always helps me. If you have to think to yourself "did I" or "didnt i" do something then you know you didnt simply because if you had done something you would certainly know. I know this may not help you but i dont know how else to put it i can understand only too well the circle of confusion you are in but you have to break through the viscious cycle of ocd and i am betting that deep down you know you didnt do anything, why you have the doubts is just ocd playing its mind games with you. Going round and round has got you nowhere with coming to a conclusion that is because you can never ever get one hundred per cent certainty with ocd. Trust in yourself that you are a good person and this thought is like all the other school thoughts its just ocd trying to get to you through a subject that is most vunerable to you and at the moment the ocd is winning. If it helps think back to how many other times you have wrote on this forum on this subject and how many times has something come true actually dont answer that because i will answer it for you and that answer will be nothing has ever come true from my thoughts because that is all they are ocd thoughts "what if what what if" is another way of recognising ocd if your thought is full of "what ifs" then you can be sure its ocd otherwise your thoughts would not need to tell you your mind would already know if you see what i mean. One final point which i realise has already been raised is the fact that you wouldnt be on this forum if it wasnt for ocd in fact none of us would. I know it is difficult and i more than most have been very guilty of asking for reassurance from the group but since i have been reading brain lock for about the fifth time or so it is all begining to click into place.

We are here for you sweetie but the only one who can do the work is you. Re-read the replies to this and other posts you have made on here and see if you can see any connections.

Thinking of you.
Liz x

Sat Jul 23 2011 15:39:59 #
Lauren
Member

It's like I have thought about it so much I am now convinced I have done it and I don't know what the truth is any more, my voice in my head says you did it and are trying to blame it on ocd but I have no strong memories of doing so, but then I have no memories of not doing it either!

Sat Jul 23 2011 21:43:34 #
Truddles
Member

Precisely, you have thought about it far too much and as a result have over analysed your thoughts.

Like several of us have now said you need to go through the various threads that you have started on this subject and reread the replies that you've received. Click on the word member under your avatar to access your posting history.

You need to ask for a referral for CBT on the NHS and to also let your GP know just how bad things are for you at the moment.

It's difficult I know but you need to stop seeking reassurance as it perpetuates the OCD and keeps us in this vicious thought pattern.

I posted this in one of Blueboy's threads:

With OCD we're looking for guarantees and certainties and there are none other than this one - that we are all going to die. Apart from that none of us can be 100% certain about anything. People without OCD live with that knowledge and act accordingly. If we have OCD we have to relearn this skill, that is filtering all the thoughts that we get and acting appropriately rather than hanging on to them because we've considered them to be important. Most of the thoughts that we hang on to people without OCD would either ignore or assess and deem them to be unimportant. Such as 'Did I lock the door?' non OCDers would briefly think, acknowledge that they had and then forget it, not us it goes round and round and won't stop. But with help we can learn to control our reactions to the thoughts, as it's our reactions to the thoughts that's more of a problem than the actual thoughts. Our reactions perpetuate the thoughts. It doesn't help that we tend to have an overinflated sense of responsibility.

Memories are of events that have happened, therefore you can't remember something that you haven't done, however hard you try. You can't remember doing it because you haven't done it and therefore you have to learn to accept it instead of trying to seek absolute proof. It's not easy and I constantly struggle with that one, but it's the only way to reclaim our lives. Remember it's our life and not the OCD's life, we are in charge and not the OCD and it frequently needs reminding who's boss.

Sat Jul 23 2011 23:23:05 #
Lauren
Member

Hi Truddles,

I do read all the posts all the time but after a while I have to check them again in case people have changed their mind with what they've said. I understand what you mean though, thank you. I appreciate you're all trying to help and I don't know why it's not sinking in. I was very silly and I spoke to ex boyfriend who said "well if I was kid and it happened to me I certainly wouldn't tell anybody I'd take the credit for the work and keep quiet". So now I feel even worse. I am convinced I have done it and I'm going to get sacked but I just don't know what the truth is. I even wrote out a list the other day of all the recordings that the kids had done in the past month or so that I could remember and whether there were other people in the room. I know this makes me sound crazy but I was trying to remember having done something. But then I couldn't remember one pupil and I got panicked because I just think I could have done it and not thought it was a big deal, when it is, I don't want to get sacked. My friend says he believes 100% I'd have been found out by now, he has a 14 year old daughter and went through teacher training and said children don't keep quiet, they either brag or come clean as they don't want to get in trouble. I just want it to go away! But by writing out my lists I am ensuring I am not a bad person, because if I leave it alone and it turns out I have done it I will be so appalled with myself. Sorry everybody for being frustrating.

Tue Jul 26 2011 13:28:26 #
Unregistered

Hi Lauren

Get on your doctors case about getting your cbt sorted, just stress to him how awful you are feeling and that you are going around in circles with it. It's exactly the same as I used to be and I know it's horrible, the more you check or ask for reassurance the more you doubt yourself, it's a nightmare! Once you start your cbt you will begin to learn how to give up your safety behaviours and things will start to improve for you x

Wed Jul 27 2011 9:47:16 #
Unregistered

Also Lauren, try to concentrate your mind on fighting the ocd, the thoughts are just ocd so there is no issue with school there is just your ocd.

Instead of thinking about this anymore, get yourself one of the recommended books and concentrate on learning how to fight your ocd thoughts.

Don't waste any more time of these thoughts, concentrate on getting a copy of the book I recommended and as soon as you start reading it you will see patterns in your behaviour that are like some of the examples in the book. Along with CBT, the book I read changed my world, literally.

Wed Jul 27 2011 9:54:23 #
BT
Member

Lauren, I’m afraid your ex boyfriend is right. And no one can say for sure that a child wouldn't keep such a thing to himself. I have been reading in several books that an effective form of therapy is to actually write down details of the ‘event’ (or record yourself) as you fear it may have occurred. Describe ‘cheating’ for the pupil, being found out, being dismissed from your job and the disappointment your family expresses. This approach is very effective for many (not all, obviously). One thing is for sure, the approach you are using will make things worse. It’s the natural reaction that nearly all of us resort to, until we either discover it makes the OCD worse, or are informed by books or therapists that we are approaching it incorrectly. If you can’t try the therapy I mentioned, then the other way is to keep busy and never engage with the thoughts. Never look back at the supposed event and try to reassure yourself it didn’t happen. You’ll only reinforce the false memory etc. I know of no one who has been helped by doing that.

Wed Jul 27 2011 10:30:02 #