OCD Action

Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

(thanks go out to Glad for the idea of posting this)

Hello everyone -

when reading a scientific review paper on Parkinson's and OCD, I came across a behavioural phenomenon called 'punding'. It is a type of behaviour that partially overlaps with 'pure' compulsions, but can also be found in disorders like Parkinson, and disorders that belong to a class of afflictions called 'OCD Spectrum Disorders', a large group that includes anorexia, BDD, tic disorders, and suchlike.

Punding is: displaying behaviour that at first glance is completely normal. Suppose you go to your neighbour for a chat and he's in his garage, diligently dismantling an old radio. It's so normal that you don't even ask a question about it. After a while, however, you notice a trend. Your neighbour collects old, dysfunctional radios and is always dismantling them. For no apparent reason. When asked, he says: 'Oh, I'm planning to build new radios out of the parts'. But after years, he's not even built one new set. He's still taking old radios apart.

After a chat with someone who knows him better, the truth turns out. Your neighbour has a terrible fear of filling in all kinds of official forms. He leaves them in stacks, envelopes unopened. He even has had a series of fines for having replied too late. Filling in tax forms is a horrendous activity for the man.

And that is why he's always dismantling. It gives him comfort. It's predictable. And to the outsider, it's irrational and aimless, meaningless.

That is punding.

I know some of it myself. I can spend quite some time at the PC, comforting myself with the idea that I am doing something meaningful. In reality, I am fooling myself, because after such a session, I realize that I had planned something entirely different for that time, something that caused me unease.

However, this punding is soothing for me.

Do you recognize some of this? What is your favoured type of punding?

Ciao, Cuthbert.

Fri Mar 12 2010 12:45:02 #
mama
Member

Yes...I like this...although I wonder if its all that bad really...unless it turns out its keeping you from doing something necessary to function in life like filling out tax forms. Its like a hobby that helps you unwind that ends up taking over and becoming an addiction that distracts you from reality. Interesting. ..
I'd say the internet is a great example...I use it and books to avoid housework all the time. bad bad. Ah well...I guess I'll go down to 'procrastination' hell in my little 'punding' handbasket! lol. Shoot. Now I can see it as a compulsion, and got to face it and do my stinkin housework...guess my book can wait...

Fri Mar 12 2010 16:29:26 #
Blueskies
Member

This is interesting,

My daughter use to comment and still does, that when she sees me doing the washing, sorting out things to chuck out, looking for things to do really, anything in my case,' Mum are you bored, why are you doing stuff that doesn't need doing?'. Now is this the same as punding, as it is related to avoidance? I know what I am avoiding!!.

It has everything to do with the plan I get into my head to write. I love writing but for example, I am heading into some deep waters at the moment regarding a very emotional time in my life and my feelings are all kicking off because I know what I want to write, its writing the dam thing, it's heavy going and doing other stuff that looks normal is my way of avoiding this.(yes this is punding! )

I have noticed this only happens to me whenever I make a plan to write. It has a link in my understanding, that if I sort other stuff out first, even though there is really no reason to do them, I will have a clearer mind to write what I intend to. In fact doing those other things, is like making excuses to avoid writing which is not always uncomfortable but is always challenging as my love for writing is purely on self development.

Good topic and very interesting!

Fri Mar 12 2010 22:03:18 #
Unregistered

Hi Blueskies

I do that tidying thing too. Did it throughout my PhD (when MY OCd was getting out of hand due to family commitments/sickness/death etc. And I am doing it again now.
On the one hand I do not like working in a mess. On the other, my work station/office is not that messy and the tidying I do does not resolve the situation. I do spend an inordinate amount of time tidying and cleaning before I eventually force myself to sit down and do some reading and writing. I tell myself it is a good opportunity to simultaneously decide what I am going to actually write when I stop tidying and cleaning. But I take so long cleaning and tidying that the whole day goes by before I actually get around to working and then I am too tired to start.

So how did I/ do I ever get out of this state. Not sure - but I think it was/is usually a good friend/husband giving me a telling off for prevaricating and procrastinating.

Incidentally, Cuthbert, I thought we might need an opposite word for this behaviour - ie when we obsessively research and read and write. I thought 'obzealing' was a good definition. My husband thinks it suits my behaviour well. Incidentally - he thinks obzealing is quite therapeutic for me as long as I know when to stop.

glad

Sat Mar 13 2010 9:40:55 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hi Blueskies -

nice call! You tell it like it is... whenever I want to deliver a good piece of scientific work, or a grading of a student's essay, I develop these weird 'preparing' tactics... suddenly I find it important that I make my notes with my fountain pen, and I cycle to the shop to buy my favourite brand of ink.

Or I think: hey, I need to know more before actually writing that thing... so I print out a few very recent articles from a science database, and start diligently reading these... and a couple of days later, I realize: gosh, I didn't need to read that stuff at all! Result: irritability, and also guilt and reprimanding myself.

Glad -

so recognizable! It's quite familiar: I get 'on a roll' re: writing after I did all other 'important' things. Which can easily be at 5 PM, when others are finishing their working day.

'Obzealing' is a great find. Let's keep it!

Ciao, Cuthbert.

Sat Mar 13 2010 10:42:20 #
Truddles
Member

Hi everyone,

I'd like to stick my two pennyworth in on this topic.

I want to emphasise that I’m not qualified in this area but had heard of the term and on seeing this topic some of what was said didn’t fit in with what I understood it to mean. So I did some investigations of my own.

As interesting as this all is perhaps we would be better served sticking to the actual definition of punding and not attributing some of our OCD symptoms to punding.

Although punding superficially resembles OCD it differs in as much as there are no obsessions or compulsions. Unlike OCD it doesn’t provoke anxiety in fact whilst punding they appear fascinated with what they are doing. They are just repetitive and pointless activities which serve no purpose, such as (to name a few) the dismantling of mechanical items, the continual sorting of household items, incessant fidgeting at clothes or oneself, pointless driving or walkabouts.

It is attributed to overactivity of dopermine as seen in addicts who take stimulants such as amphetamines and in Parkinson patients taking high doses of levodopa

Punding comes from the Swedish slang for blockhead used by amphetamine addicts to describe their repetitive and pointless activities.

What you are describing appears to be avoidance or distraction behaviour not punding.

The notion you describe of ‘Obzealing’ can therefore only be an opposite in as much as it’s describing an obsession where as punding isn’t an obsession.

Trudy

Sat Mar 13 2010 12:50:19 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hi Trudy -

thanks for your contribution. I should have made the distinction between pure OCD and punding more clearly.

Cuthbert.

Sat Mar 13 2010 15:29:03 #
Blueskies
Member

Hi Trudy!

You raise some excellent points but before I read your reply, I was going to elborate on my previous reply but I think it will all tie in to what I am trying to say.

The question as to whether punding is a pointless, meaningless or aimless activity is debateble as I believe that there is always a reason and a motive as to why I perform the tasks however insignicant it may appear to others. All my actions mean something to me, therefore it is the personal meaning that really matters ,in understanding these behaviours.

Here's my personal meaning.

The tasks that I do, like you rightfully said, is not anxiety driven, as in OCD, but they are first and foremost, activities that I do in preparation to build my confidence to face some emotions that are in there nature,uncomfortable and unpredicatable because I can not know for sure what the outcome to facing those feelings will be. The activities although essentially are avoidance behaviours serve a purpose in me, to simply build my confidence with what I already know and is familiar to me allbeit washing, tidying up etc.... They are avoidance behaviours that create a sense of comfort and saftey to tackle the real issue of my feelings that I want to face, but need a certain degree of predictabilty to do so. My motive behind my actions in this case, is not to avoid the unpleasant feelings but to gain the confidence by doing familiar tasks before I jump in!

and of course when I write, I am on a roll and believe it or not, that confidence from those 'apparently meaningless tasks' actually does work for me in facing those emotions and feelings without much discomfort.

Similarities to what I am trying to say, could be the guy who needs a drink first to give him some dutch courage to ask his girlfriend to marry him. Now the drink here is used as a confidence booster. He may not know the answer but it causes him some discomfort in confronting the issue. This is very simplistic but holds the same meaning relating to my punding.

Are there similarities with Punding and OCD?

OCD we know is anxiety driven and the compulsions and behaviours are repetitative to avoid uncomfortable feelings all together.

Punding, is not anxiety driven, but in my view is used to face and prepare onself to deal with uncomfortable feelings. Both have the element of avoidance in my experience. The latter has the elements to confront, whereby the former is total avoidance in my experiences.

I hope I have not confused anyone in this personal explanation

Sat Mar 13 2010 17:02:33 #
Truddles
Member

Hi Cuthbert,

Perhaps you would be so kind as to send me a PM with the name of the article that you are referring to so I can compare it with what I know on the subject.

Thanks

Trudy

Sat Mar 13 2010 18:08:54 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hi Trudy -

if you trust me enough to e-mail me then I can send you the whole article as an attachment. Check your mailbox here to see my mail address.

Cheers, Cuthbert.

Sun Mar 14 2010 9:38:32 #