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njb
Member

I am searching for clarity and in extreme anxiety.

I have Pure OCD and for last few years specifically paedophile ocd. I am really stressing about a couple of things from the ICD and DSM diagnosis and would be grateful for anyone to shed a non-panicking light of clarity (that which I could for anyone else but me).

DSM
I read in the DSM the following and am hoping I am reading it right that it means the OCD obsessions are not just a different disorder and so it is saying that the ocd thoughts are not just Axis 1. Sorry if this makes no sense but I am reading it that obsessions and compulsions exist in Axis 1 and therefore as Pariphillia is listed that being a paedophile is all about obsessions and compulsions like ocd. This petrifies me.

here is the excert :

D. If another Axis I disorder is present, the content of the obsessions or compulsions is not restricted to it (e.g., preoccupation with food in the presence of an Eating Disorders; hair pulling in the presence of Trichotillomania; concern with appearance in the presence of Body Dysmorphic Disorder; preoccupation with drugs in the presence of a Substance Use Disorder; preoccupation with having a serious illness in the presence of Hypochondriasis; preoccupation with sexual urges or fantasies in the presence of a Paraphilia; or guilty ruminations in the presence of Major Depressive Disorder).

ICD
I read in the ICD the following which scared me as when i get an intrusive thought the feeling is so real that i like it (appreciate this is anxiety and we all suffer this) - but this has me terrified now:

© the thought of carrying out the act must not in itself be pleasurable (simple relief of tension or anxiety is not regarded as pleasure in this sense);

Finally, I am so worried about Ego Dystonic and Ego Dynostic because I have read that Paedophiles may be either, whereas with POCD I am definitely Ego Dystonic.

I would really appreciate some help.

Thu Jan 5 2012 10:51:22 #
BT
Member

I've read this several times and believe you are interpeting it correctly. I suffer the same so can empathise.

Thu Jan 5 2012 12:07:35 #
BT
Member

P.S. I'm familiar with the term ego dystonic, but can you explain what ego dynostic means?

Thu Jan 5 2012 12:19:05 #
njb
Member

Hi,

Thanks so much for replying. From wikipedia:

Egosyntonic is a psychological term referring to behaviors, values, feelings that are in harmony with or acceptable to the needs and goals of the ego, or consistent with one's ideal self-image.

Egodystonic is the opposite of egosyntonic and refers to thoughts and behaviors (e.g., dreams, impulses, compulsions, desires, etc.) that are in conflict, or dissonant, with the needs and goals of the ego, or, further, in conflict with a person's ideal self-image: 'some of the literature uses the term "ego alien"'

So OCD is the latter. But apparently paedophilia could be both. I know this spiked me but being sensible I do know that some Paedophiles do wish for treatment as they are not comfortable with their sexual orientation and the dsm and alike do state a level of difficulty BUT the most important thing for POCD sufferers to remember is that a Paedophile will get genuine sexual fantasy/urges and pleasure despite the variation in ego...so I have read and for POCD sufferers despite that awful 'i think i like it - it cant be ocd' - we do then go through hell to cancel it out for that just right feeling. I doubt many paedophiles pleasure themselves then feel like killing themselves (ok i may be wrong there too - argh - ocd makes you so unsure of everything!)

I don't know - OCD is a living hell. A rollercoaster.

Thankyou so much for replying in my hour of need.

Thu Jan 5 2012 12:35:06 #
BT
Member

I know what ego-syntonic means. You wrote 'ego dystonic' - I guess it was a keyboard slip! If you want to PM me any time, please do. I know what hell this symptom is.

Thu Jan 5 2012 12:46:39 #
njb
Member

Hi,

Can anyone explain this either : from the DSM which states the below about compulsions. I'm not sure that Pure O would say that the mental acts are not connected in a realistic way because most people I know the mental ritual (rumination) is exactly that ie thinking about every angle of when they spiked???

2) the behaviours or mental acts are aimed at preventing or reducing distress or preventing some dreaded event or situation; however, these behaviours or mental acts either are not connected in a realistic way with what they are designed to neutralize or prevent or are clearly excessive.

Mine are both excessive and related to the spike !!

Thu Jan 5 2012 13:38:15 #
BT
Member

Mine are, too.

Thu Jan 5 2012 13:46:20 #
njb
Member

Hi BT,

What do you think of this - having re-read the DSM (D) is this a positive as it is actually saying that to qualify for OCD, essentially in the presence of an Axis 1 (such as pariphillia ((paedophillia)) you need to experience obsessions and compulsions outside this and it may be saying that others disorders dont have OCD 'qualities' of obsession or compulsion ?

x

Thu Jan 5 2012 14:02:59 #
njb
Member

I think that on the type of compulsions most ruminating is excessive and the other reference to unrelated is where ocd is overt, or in magical thinking when you think i must say this or do this to stop this happening.

Thu Jan 5 2012 14:06:12 #
Mike
Member

njb - I'm very confused about what you're asking. Can you re-phrase your questions? It sounds like you have OCD with primarily mental compulsions (there is no such thing as "Pure O", since all OCD sufferers have compulsions), with fear of being a pedophile one of your major fears.

I'm not aware of pedophilia being considered a mental disorder at all, on any of the axis.

Have you tried ERP therapy? I think that would help you a lot.

Thu Jan 5 2012 19:48:07 #
slogsweep
Member

I agree with Mike, I don't think it is a mental disorder. If that is a mental disorder then so is every sex criminal and any other type of criminal out there.

I think however that it is something so terrible that combined with OCD, it can turn into a mental illness brought through fear of being exactly what you fear most. What you're going through is without a doubt ego-dystonic and it appalls you. These people are perfectly ok with what they are and the suffering they cause (somehow). We with OCD are not like that.

Eventually, like me you'll get a moment of clarity and it'll feel wonderful.

Best wishes and message me anytime,

Slog

Thu Jan 5 2012 22:02:46 #
BT
Member

Mike, there is such a thing as Pure ‘O’ (although I don’t like or use the term). I do not engage in compulsions with my obsessions. I believe you are correct about paedophilia not being regarded as a mental illness.

Slog, I’m afraid that although I clearly recognise those of us with this awful symptom are far removed from actual paedophiles, it isn’t the case that all such sex offenders are perfectly OK with what they are and the suffering they inflict on children. Documentaries have revealed that some indeed have consciences and beg for help.

NJB, I would try to stop analysing the DSM etc. Such compulsions never do satisfy us. It’s clear you have OCD and are not what your obsession tells you. I find keeping my mind occupied is a better way of dealing with it, because OCD always comes up with a counter-argument.

Fri Jan 6 2012 12:54:01 #
slogsweep
Member

I agree with you that Pure O exists, there's tens of people with it on this very site.

I think with regards to the concience thing, OCD is thoughts. Whether this is false memories, over-significance, hyperesponsibility or misunderstanding OCD is purely about thoughts.

These people have taken part in real, physical actions.

That's the difference for me. OCD is mental torture with what you fear most. It's something so fearful that you become ill over it.

It may feel real, false memories are horrific and very sticky to get rid of. But people with OCD, or the vast, vast 99.99999% majority can't do such terrible things.

Slog

Fri Jan 6 2012 14:25:50 #
Mike
Member

BT,

Do you not have compulsions because you resist the urge to perform compulsions, or do you not even have any urge to perform them? If it's the former, then you do have compulsive urges, but choose not to give in to them (which is part of exposure therapy); if it's the latter, then that would be the first time I've ever heard of anyone with obsessive thoughts and no compulsive urges.

Mike

Fri Jan 6 2012 18:24:02 #
Mike
Member

Pure O is a misnomer because it implies that there are no compulsions. OCD, by definition, consists of obsessions and compulsions. Pure O was coined to describe those who have no VISIBLE compulsions, but it turned out that these patients do have compulsions, but they're all mental so they weren't noticeable at first.

Fri Jan 6 2012 18:25:13 #
njb
Member

Hi,

Thankyou both for the supportive replies. I appreciate it.

I also agree that OCD is OCD and compulsions can be overt/covert or both. Pure O is as you know just the terminology which is commonly used to describe someone who has covert compulsions/ruminations. Maybe it is more appropriate to just say ocd but the use of 'slang' allows a quick focus to the 'type' of ocd symptoms the sufferer experiences. Having said that I have a mixture of both overt and covert but the overt don't cause me anxiety whereas the intrusive thoughts are torturous.

Thanks once again for being around and taking the time to reply.

Fri Jan 6 2012 23:13:17 #
slogsweep
Member

Can I offer a little advice, unrelated to the topic of this post but it could be crucial with regards to you feeling better -

If you get an urge to research these things on the internet, or even researching medical conditions and related stuff, please don't do it

I say this from experience. The internet and the ability to access information anytime anywhere, was the main cause of my recent and worst ever bout of OCD. Looking up things on Wikipedia and forum sites nearly killed me. It deepened obsessions and made me feel trapped. Whenever I have an urge to look these things up, I know it's the OCD trying to get a major foothold in my life again. It's not gone, but since I've resisted the urge to learn things I don't really need to online, it has got better, at least, better enough for me to start CBT.

When you're feeling blue, stick to safe havens like OCD action when you're surfing the net. Not exclusively, mind. I mean if you're on say, Facebook and something makes you feel low, or you read something disturbing on the news, have this site on a tab, so support is just a click away. Eventually you'll feel well enough to not need this, but think of it as stabilizers on a bike.

Please don't end up like me, I couldn't wish that on anyone.

Slog

Fri Jan 6 2012 23:23:00 #
njb
Member

Hi Slog,

Can't fault your advice. Too late for me as I went down same route as you back in 2003. I'm tackling health anxiety topic in addition to OCD - appreciate they may be same type of illness etc and so on but for me the topic of the HA has remained solid for 9 years and i do approach it slightly differently and it has different features but I think it is all driven by the vicious cycle of thinking which is core to any anxiety. The ocd element applies itself to ANY thought I spike on.

So, good and bad news - I am like you already but that is the good news for you and me. A) I think you are alright and B) you are not alone.

Sat Jan 7 2012 7:39:22 #
BT
Member

Mike, I have no urge to perform compulsions.

Sat Jan 7 2012 11:42:53 #
njb
Member

Slog - Please tell me you mean that the fear of paedophillia combined with ocd = like mental illness and not that I have paedophillia and combined with ocd = mental illness.

I'm pretty sure that's what you mean in terms of having your worst fear combined with ocd. I just re-read it and I'm going over and over the words (you know what it's like!).

BT - You mention in a previous post that your ruminations are both excessive and sometimes not related but I see you don't have the urge of compulsion. Are you able to resist or do you reduce the anxiety in another way ?

Thanks all of you.

Sat Jan 7 2012 14:27:58 #
S*F
Member

Hi!

Can someone explain what a 'spike' is? I keep reading people refer to them but don't know what they mean. Is it that feeling of utter fear and panic that can sweep over you when you have a thought?

S

Sat Jan 7 2012 21:09:04 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi S, got it in one! At least that is my understanding of a spike. To me it is when I suddenly have an intrusive thought, that then triggers an obsession that I cannot stop.
Wannabe

Sat Jan 7 2012 21:48:41 #
slogsweep
Member

NJB you're dead right, it's your worst fear combining. It's not something you are, just something you find so utterly repugnant that you couldn't even bear the slightest thought of it entering your mind.

You're not what you fear,

Slogm

Sun Jan 8 2012 0:27:35 #
Tess
Member

My "spikes" are a bit different to this, had one yesterday - a build up of something, possibly stress, which I don't notice but husband sees it long before I do, mentions I am irritable and asks if anything is bothering me to which I invariably reply that I can't think of anything. Then something very small happens, like yesterday finding he had sent me an e-mail which wouldn't open and I erupt into a combination of fury, near suicidal depression and a blinding headache. If I then take steps to relieve it, like taking a pain killer and getting out for a walk it will slowly dissipate but then it is followed by a night in which I feel I have slept like the dead but the OCD torments me with OCD nightmares and I wake in tatters. Then over the course of the next day I seem to return back to how I was before the spike.
Does anyone else experience this? They absolutely exhaust me and although I now manage my life so that they are rare I just wish I could be rid of them completely.

Sun Jan 8 2012 11:33:42 #
S*F
Member

Thanks all My last 'SPIKE' was xmas day. HATE THEM! But, they are getting easier. I am practising mindfullness and it seems to be helping a little. Will keep you all posted on the progress with that one

S

Sun Jan 8 2012 20:02:40 #
Mike
Member

Tess,

So are you diagnosed with depression as well?

Sun Jan 8 2012 20:06:42 #
njb
Member

Tess - my wife seems to know ages before I do that I am going downhill so we share that !
x

Sun Jan 8 2012 21:10:21 #
slogsweep
Member

Shows how special our girlfriends/wives/husbands are. My girlfriend stops me from worrying. All is well when I'm with her and she can spot me ruminating a mile off.

Sun Jan 8 2012 21:11:43 #
njb
Member

As this thread is a little more light hearted now, I always laugh with my friend that I would be the last person to cheat on my wife as I'd be down for tests non stop !

We are lucky to have such understanding partners but I know that as OCD sufferers we too would be equally supportive. Unless we are stuck in ruminating then the world can stop and I wouldn't notice - I'd react but my brain would be 99.99% ruminate buzz !

Here's to a hopeful good week ahead for us all.

Sun Jan 8 2012 21:18:40 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi Slog, Hi njb, yes, let's hope for a better week ahead, and I agree about the supportive partners, we are lucky that they stay around us I think, I know I can be a right pain in the neck to live with!
Wannabe

Sun Jan 8 2012 21:22:12 #