OCD Action

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anxious27
Member

Hi,
just found this forum yesterday and this is my first post so far. I moved to south London from Western Europe two years ago. I haven't been diagnosed with any mental condition. However, I think I might suffer from OCD (as some people on HIV forum suggested) since the latest "incident" which involved myself, drinking with friends, alcohol blackout the mornig after and -hopefully- irrational fear that I was raped and/or I was having sex with HIV positive person. Oh god! Here it goes.
Exactly 4 weeks ago me, my boyfriend and another friend went together to a concert in central London, afterwards we decided to go for a drink or two to a pub near the station. We were having quite a few beers; I am not used to drink like this and I guess I was just having too much fun that night. The last thing from the pub I remember is shortly after we walked in, round 9pm, and I ordered a plate of chicken wings. I also have a memory of two English guys sitting at our time and me and my friend talking to each of them. At that time I also know my bf was quite upset as we were not paying attention to him. Anyway, then it gets hazy.. next I remember is going through a barrier at the train station at 12.20. Then waiting at least half an hour before the train got moving (I remember looking through the pictures I took at my camera, and also looking from the window). Then I walk through the barrier of my home station. The problem is I didn't use my ticket so can't check what time it was but I think I took the train which arrived at 1am...the train journey takes approx. 25 minutes. Then I had to walk down the road (main road, lit with houses on both sides) which takes cca 10-15 minutes. The next I know is I am near our house, I see our car from distance and think "the car is home, but my boyfriend is not". Then I know that I am at home getting ready for a shower. I also do my washing and I wash my living room curtains as we had a visit next week so I was planning on doing it anyway and I guess I decided to do it. I then have a shower (don't remember the shower itself) but I know I was sitting at my bed, drying my hair, setting my alarm and then calling my bf to tell him I'm home. I remember him asking me to call him cab, but I told him "no stay where you are and come back in the morning, it's not worth the money" - as we were on opposite sides of London. Then I must have fallen asleep.
The next morning I had to call offsick as I had a horrible hangover. This is the first time in my life I had to call offsick due to alcohol - so this already made me feel very guilty. I had few blackouts in my life, few drinking episodes, but it was always on a weekend and I was with friends or family. Now this time, I was by myself from 11.45am-approximately till 1.15am. And I know I was on the train between 12:15-1pm. And I have no recollection whatsover about what was going on, what was happening. My fear is that I either had a voluntary sex or that I was raped on my way home. My boyfriend and my friend think that I am crazy. I can't shake this off my mind and I am obsessing with this 24/7 (for 3 weeks already). They said "you had a lot to drink but you didn't seem drunk, you didn't stumble or behaved crazy, you were normal, had normal converstaion etc." Even my boyfriend told me the next day that when we talked in the night I sounded sober. But I remember nothing about it, nor do I remember my journey home, or those 30 minutes I was left by myself in London. Well...I didn't have any weird feeling when I woke up. I had no pain anywhere, nothing sore, nothing "reddish", no "sensation" down there. I also had no bruising, no scratching, no torn clothes. All my valuables incl. two purses with cash and cards, camera and a phone were in my bag, which was neatly put on the table. My clothes were all washed and fresh so I can't tell but they didn't seem to show any signs of violence like being torn. I didn't miss a thing icl. my belt, knickers, socks etc. I guess I am being irrational, over-reacting on something which has no "evidence" and my mind is playing tricks with me? Is it possible that I remember things like drying my hair, but would not remember being raped? Would I not at least get a flashback, or something? I can't shake off the feeling of "what if" something happened and I don't remember it? This person was for sure HIV+ so I now have the virus... I keep checking my body constantly since three weeks, I take my temperature at least 4 times a day and when it gets near 37 degrees I am freaking out! I also get panicky over every spot, or blemish. I have already diagnosed my tongue as having a white coating, but then I got rid of this as I read that it only happens years after contracting HIV. I don't worry about another STD only HIV. I posted on another forum for HIV prevention and the people there think I have a paranoia and that I would have known if I had sex or I was raped...
I am actually at the point where I wake up at six in the morning, spend the whole day with my thoughts, going back in memories and trying to "fill the blanks" and I actually don't know if things are real or not. I don't know what to do! I am so scared! I go to bed at 9pm, exhausted of the constant thoughts, and I have nightmares about it, playing the night forwards and backwards. I must have a test but I need to wait for the next 3 weeks so that it is 6 weeks from the "possible" sexual act. I had my HIV & STD test done last week (14 days after) and this came back negative, but I know it takes at least 6 weeks for anything to show. I haven't had any symptomps so far but I am extensively checking my body at least 20 times a day. My boyfriend doesn't talk to me much and he shouts at me to go to a psychiatrist. I honestly don't know - is it possible I was raped? If not, why do I think I could have been? I walked the road yesterday night with my boyfriend, I made him go with me to the station and back, as I thought this might help me get some memories, or at least feelings but nothing happened. I also made the pub manager to go through the CCTV from the pub which showed our table and also the CCTV at the toilets entrance. She confirmed to me that I did not go with any guys onto the toilets (I was worried I could have) and that I left with my boyfriend at 11;45, the pub closed at 12:15, the guys were leaving as the last ones with another girls (possibly girlfriends) and I have never come back. After she confirmed this I started worrying about the rape. Before it didn't really occured to me as I though that I would have had some sings of violence or similar. Why is this happening? Can it be real, do you think I should stop and I'll be fine? As for alcohol, I made a pact with myself that I will never touch a glass no matter what. I have no wory about me sticking to this plan. I stopped smoking from one day to another 11 months ago and didn't have a one since then.

Sorry for such a lengthy post & thanks for allowing me let this out.
Lena

Mon 27 Aug 2012 17:28 #
Luke
Member

Hi Lena
Wow that was a very long message! You are really struggling at the moment - so anxious. I read you message carefully and to me it is definitely 100% OCD that has got a hold of you. Nothing else

I have OCD and one of my worse ever incidents about 5 years ago was that I like you was convinced that I was the unlucky one and may have that disease (still cannot say it)!! It was based on being totally irrational. I analysed every situation that I had been in and I tried to work out if I had been ill...over and over again. The more I worried, the worse I looked, I lost weight etc...that convinced me that I was ill and so on. It was nothing more than an OCD nightmare. To others I sounded a bit mad! I remember asking the doctor at the clinic and he told me that i his life experience no one in my situation had ever caught it, that he knew. After the test and I was fine I then thought I had hepatitis and on and on it goes

I have told you this because nothing happened. Your fear has got out of total control that you are being totally irrational now. Its got out of hand. The quotes below shows that

I guess I am being irrational, over-reacting on something which has no "evidence" and my mind is playing tricks with me?

I haven't had any symptoms so far but I am extensively checking my body at least 20 times a day.

I walked the road yesterday night with my boyfriend, I made him go with me to the station and back,

I hope that this has helped you. It is OCD, nothing more. You can move on!
Luke

Mon 27 Aug 2012 17:57 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hiya Lena -

welcome to the forums here.

That is a very detailed story you are telling here. I read it twice, and there are quite some characteristic details in there, that tell us something about both what happened and what bothers you so much.

Two things:

1. there is no such thing as absolute certainty, so the adage must be: try to live with uncertainty, however hard that may be. With this necessary limitation, I can tell you that my impression is that you certainly weren't raped, nor had voluntary sex with 'a stranger who might be HIV-positive' that particular night. Given all other things that you come up with, this is utterly, utterly improbable. As for the possible suggestion that a rape might have been repressed as a memory, so inaccessible for our conscious mind: consider this nonsense.
I could cite each and every detail that you do remember, to prove that you pretty well recall numerous trivial things - but let's simply stick to this conclusion (the good recall, I mean, given the fact that you had been drinking). As you suggest yourself: you then would surely have remembered a grave, and/or intense experience such as rape, or sex with a stranger. And have felt guilty when going through any graphic type of memory of such an event.
So, Lena: any sound consideration will lead to the same conclusion: no need to worry over all this.

2. your level of worrying is very high. That is a separate topic to look at. You don't succeed at creating some ease of mind on the matter, however hard you try. You try to fill in blanks. You checked and check your body, and you checked the personal belongings you carried with you, for irregularities that might confirm your fears. You even went so far as to get the pub manager to go through camera footage to make sure about a couple of things.
As I said: you must learn to live with uncertainty. The complete night, from second to second and as told by all kinds of 100% objective witnesses and/or electronic control gadgetry, will never be told, assembled, or how you like to name it. There will always be pretty huge gaps, and that is: very normal.
Moreover: excessive back-checking, the way you do it, has two serious disadvantages: one, it will aggravate your fears and uncertainties, it will feed them, instead of providing you with some comfort - believe me, this makes for a threat to your well-being. Two: this back-checking has a danger all of itself, namely that you might come up with what I call a 'false positive'. You concentrate with all of your might on behaviour of a certain type, which may or may not have occurred (e.g. being in the vicinity of the toilets, at the same time some guy was there). Here, you have an enormous bias. You will interpret any report, or piece of video footage in precisely one manner, and won't be receptive to other interpretations. Suppose the CCTV recording showed you and a man near the toilets. Suppose furthermore that that was entirely accidental, that you had no contact in any way with that man, nor will you ever see him again any more. Still, you would very much lean to interpreting that information differently, along the lines of: see, d*mn, what I was so afraid of is true, I did have contact with that man, my God, what have I done?

That is my 'false positive', a real risk in such inquiries, that can potentially spoil your happiness for quite some time - and mind, my example was perfectly innocent.

____________________

I hope I could clarify somewhat about what I gather from your report of that night and your fears thereafter.

____________________

Finally: if you think it will really, really provide you with relief, then taking an HIV test is not a bad idea. I know it means giving in to one's fears to a certain extent, but even then it may have soothing and calming effects.

But: I think it would be wise for you to see an expert, e.g. a therapist about these fears and the behaviours related to them. Because basically you tell about an innocent and pretty amusing night that turned into something very taxing and vexing for you, something that troubled your life and took your thinking and feeling hostage for a pretty long time, and it's not over yet.

IMHO that is because you have a disposition to seek control and knowing for sure, related to your own most intimate domain - and when the opportunity for control is temporarily lower (through alcohol, on this occasion), your anxieties get totally out of hand.

If I were you, I would try to do something about this. Nothing to be ashamed about. You should be able to enjoy one glass of fine wine, for instance, without having to deal with all these troubles of mind afterwards - and that is just one example I can come up with.

OK, Lena, my reply is pretty long... I hope it helps somewhat. Always feel free to ask, and/or to send a private message if you feel like it.

Best, Cuthbert.

PS: taking into account the whole picture, it indeed looks as if you are dealing with aspects of OCD (the obsessive checking of the immediate past, without attaining a satisfactory result; and perhaps also contamination issues). An expert can address these outstanding questions, I am sure.

Mon 27 Aug 2012 18:23 #
anxious27
Member

Hi Luke.
Thanks so much for your reply. And sorry for the long post.
You say that I can move on; I would love to believe that! I want to go back to my "normal" life but all I can think of is this. I even postpone things until I can go for my test and get my results which I hope will be negative. They were negative two weeks ago! But what if this happened and my results will be positive?
Is it likely I was raped on a street (main road with frequent buses, cars, houses on both sides and lights everywhere) and am left with zero memory afterwards (due to the alcohol intake?) I am sure I didn't pass out and I know I walked home, but the fact that I have no memory scares me so much. I have nothing to evidence this on, just my thoughts...is there anything 100% reassuring which can help me in my state of mind? I desperately want to move on!

Thank you!

Mon 27 Aug 2012 18:32 #
Luke
Member

Gosh Lena
Your anxiety levels are really high at the moment. I can feel them when Im reading your message. Please read my post again...does it help at all? What ever I say you will still worry and have anxiety. Lena, I was the same - I was the same - always looking for a 'but what if...' after friends /family had given me reassurance.

Lena, I can assure you that with what I have read from you - you are having severe anxiety attacks because your OCD is a high level at the moment. I have really been there. So really really you can move on! But do you know that it is OCD - your mind messing with you?? Overcoming OCD situations is totally about taking a chance - Take a chance by letting it go for a few days.

Hopes this helps...feel free to message for any further advice...and try and let it go for a while...it is all ok!

Mon 27 Aug 2012 20:21 #
Mike
Blocked

Anxious -

Please read cuthbert's post very closely. No matter how many people tell you that you have nothing to worry about, or that you can move on, this will not help you. OCD cannot be cured by reassurance, and compulsively seeking reassurance (such as all your checking behaviors, taking your temperature, etc.) will only make things worse.

You need to learn how to live with the fact that you'll never know what happened that night, and to do that you should be doing exposure and response prevention therapy with a licensed therapist.

-Mike

Mon 27 Aug 2012 20:25 #
anxious27
Member

Hi Cuthbert,
thanks so much for your reply, it is very much appreciated and I realise how much you try to help me, also given your long reply.

As you say, this left me feel awful, anxious and panicky - over something that started as an "innocent evening". I wonder if I could have some mental issue lying deep inside me which was only waiting for something like this to happen, for an opportunity to attack me (as you put it, after I lost control due to alcohol). I am not sure if I put it clearly in my post, my scare is not the sex with stranger-cheating or rape, it is the fact that I might have contracted HIV. I do feel, however, that this is unreal if I 1. didn't inject any drug - which I haven't 2. didn't have sex. I don't think any of the above happened, but I still worry that it might have happened somehow (and I don't remember). So yes, I am scared of the not-knowing what exactly happened that night, and I know I can live with that as long as I know that I am HIV negative. I am also not worried about any other STD, even though I know that one is more likely to get infected with chlamydia or gonorrhea than HIV. I am pretty sure that I can move on after I get my negative results. And as you tried to reassure me, or give me your opinion given your limited knowledge of this night, it is highly unlikely this happened. Still, there is a little chance... but is this "little chance" my irrational thought, or is it normal to have this fear? I don't know..

You also expressed your thought on me having disposition to be in control and you might be right. I work as a supervisor (am in control of the team) and in my relationship (4 years with my boyfriend) I am the one who takes care of everything from paying bills to ordering holidays. My previous relationship lasted 4 years and I remember being the same. So I guess that it is who I am. As for my sex life I'd just like to say briefly that my last sex with my boyfriend (always with a condom) was some time in July. So if there was anything happening on 5th August (the night), would I know (given the long time between any sexual intercourse I had?)

My boyfriend thinks that I might be using these situations to "escape" from real problems. When I think about it, I actually can't understand how am I still coping given the time and level of my worrying. I had two past episodes of health anxieties - one in September last year when I received a false result of my smear test showing I have a precancerous changes in my cervix. After three long months I was able to get three more smears from two different doctors and a biopsy, all was negative, so I was clear. But I thought of the worst the whole time, obviously. Then a month later I found a lump in my breast and I thought it's cancer. I had since then two ultrasounds which showed it's a gland, and I should not worry. And now this... I am not sure if what I described above can be anyhow related to my current situation? I really don't know why it's all happening. I keep telling myself that once this worry is gone - and I hope it will be gone by me getting my negative results - I will be able to move on. There are so many exciting things ahead of me just waiting for me to grab them, and I am now so afraid that I will not be able to enjoy them, as I know I can't deal with knowing I have this disease (HIV). I can feel that I am getting out of control again..

There are few things that are helping me:
- I had no physical symptomps of being raped or sexually assaulted (but I had a shower so I am not sure if I washed out any evidence; at the same time I wouldn't be able to wash bruising, or scratches and I had none of these)
- I had all my belongings (the attackers would also steal my valuables I hope, so this can be a sign that I was not attacked/assaulted)
- I had no weird feelings about sex/rape/violence (as much as I can remember)
- I walked on a wide main road(the only possible place where this could have happened)with public lights, shops (closed at that time), family homes. I've been walking there many times this late in the night, but I never had these thoughts, probably because I always remembered everything. There is no park near by, or any "black corner".
- If I arrived at 1am (and I think I did), I was home at 1.15/1.20am. After that I did my washing, had a shower, dried my hair and only THEN I called my boyfriend (1.55am - according to the phone register - I know that as I was lying in my bed). The time for me accomplishing all these things is ca 35 minutes which I think proves that I have the timing right. So if I was walking from 1-1.20 which is max. 20 minutes, and the journey itself takes this long, when would the rape take place?
- my initial thoughts when I woke up the next day were "Gosh, that's so bad to get drunk and call offsick". But then I went on with making lunch etc.
- my thought related to anything this bad started after my boyfriend came home and told me that they left me in the pub by myself. Which actually isn't true (the waitress confirmed that we DID leave together with my bf and the other friend, an my friend also told me that we left together). My boyfriend was drunk, so he didn't remember. But after he said "we left you there", my first thought was "Oh god, I was there alone, with the two guys. What did they do to me? How come I don't remember? What if they spiked my drink & I had sex with them and don't remember it now". I thought this for the next three days, after the pub manager checked the footage. Then (after I knew that I did not come into contact with the guys after we left) I started to think, and believe that I was raped on my journey home (from the station to our flat). I also had a brief thought that there was somebody in our flat (because I could have left the door open), but I think that this is quite unlikely, as I was talking to my boyfriend at 1.55am and I would have told him if anything, correct?

I do apologise for - again - my long and possibly confusing post.

I know that you & Mike & Luke told me to seek help, but I will ask again - Do you think that I will be able to get over this by myself/with your precious help, or do you think that I really should make an appointment with my GP and tell her this story? I have spoken to the health advisor from the sexual clinic 14 days ago and she seemed to think that I am just anxious and should speak with somebody.

Thank you so much!
Lena

Tue 28 Aug 2012 8:42 #
Tess
Member

Hi Lena
I'm sorry to have to say this to you but going over and over this in your mind looking for reassurance is not helping you, nor will having yourself tested. Yes, you will get the negative result you so desperately want and you will feel better temporarily, but the chances are that something else will then happen and it will set it all off again, just on a slightly different theme. Life is full of uncertainties and unexpected stresses which can trigger OCD but with professional help you can learn how to deal with these situations without having an OCD relapse. Mike and Cuthbert have told you the correct way forward, it will not be easy but it will be far easier than living with recurring OCD symptoms. As someone who developed OCD long before modern treatments were available I can only advise you to take full advantage of the professional help which is available. No-one can say for sure whether you will be able to get over this yourself without professional help but one thing we can definitely say is that your chances of relapsing without professional help are likely to be high. So my answer to your last paragraph is yes, make that appointment with your GP, OCD is an anxiety disorder and in my opinion your sexual health advisor has given you the correct advice.

Tue 28 Aug 2012 10:26 #
anxious27
Member

Hi Tess,

thank you for your reply. I know, you're right, eveytime I try to go back it only brings back the fear... one minute I am doing fine and the other I find myself totally obsessed with something I keep thinking about. So I just need to keep busy I guess and not let my thoughts the space to play with me.

I would say that I am worried to see my GP after all, as I don't want her to judge me. But I will keep this option open after all, I can always schedule an appointment and talk to her. I am going to schedule my test for beginning of next week, as that should be exactly 4 weeks from that night. The test should be 99.7% accurate, that is the information I was given. I will also need to go after 8 weeks, to have a confirmatory result.

I do think the reassurance works for me, but I would like to hear some "logical explanations" like if somebody would tell me that it's not possible being raped and not remember it 20 minutes later. And not to have any injury, or torn clothes. I know one can be raped in a bed and if the person is so drunk they might not remember (although a woman would feel something there I want to believe), but I was moving from point A to point B, so I just want to know that this situation will be quite impossible. Would I not shout? Would I not cry, or fight? Would I just really continue walking home, wash my curtains and dry my hair? That doesn't make sense. I feel like I am now the one who is trying to persuade you that it didn't happen

I have read about Bach therapy, I am going to look for some information on this.

Thank you & all best
Lena

Tue 28 Aug 2012 14:37 #
Mike
Blocked

Anxious,

A couple important points: 1) under no circumstances should you get tested for HIV. That's absolutely the worst thing you can do right now. 2) The "little doubt" that you're talking about is the uncertainty that the OCD feeds on. It has nothing to do with being rational or irrational, but rather, the difference is that people without OCD can cope with this uncertainty, whereas people with OCD cannot. To overcome OCD requires learning how to cope with uncertainty. This means 1) not getting tested, 2) not seeking reassurance, and 3) simply living with the possibility of having HIV, just as everyone else does. Do you think that I know for a fact that I don't have HIV? Of course not.

As you said, the test is not 100% accurate, and even if it were, there could still be human error involved, such as accidentally giving you someone else's results. The obsessions will likely either 1) focus on the uncertainty regarding the test, and you will continue to feel anxious, or 2) jump to a different topic that will make you feel anxious. Every time you give in to a compulsive urge such as being tested, you're reinforcing the OCD and making it harder for you to get better. Every time you refuse to give in and force yourself to live with uncertainty, you're beating back the OCD and increasing your chances of getting better.

And as I said before, the proper treatment for OCD is CBT with ERP, and medications, so that's what you should be doing.

-Mike

Tue 28 Aug 2012 16:21 #
anxious27
Member

Hello Mike

thanks for your note. Although I really really appreciate your insight into this matter, I have to strongly disagree with you. Why do you think that the testing is nonsense? Wouldn't it be much bigger nonsense NOT to get tested and therefore possibly live with an HIV infection (knowing, of course, there might have been an exposure to it) and possibly infect my partner and our baby, as we wer thinking of having a baby in the next few months? Isn't it better to get tested now, and live in the "knowing" state of mind rather than test positive at the time I might be pregnant and discovering that both my child and my partner are infected (caused by myself)?

I really do get you though: you approach is a harsh one, you say "you need to live with this" but I feel that I am SO new to all of this. I actually haven't even come to terms with the fact that I might have/have not a mental issue and you already suggest me having some kind of ERP therapy and medication. I don't know... does it make sense that I am exposed to my feelings every day for the past three weeks (this might be some kind of therapy in a way?) and that I am also exposed to the possible "scene of action" every other day as that is where my journey home from work goes (every other afternoon/morning I walk the same road/street to the same train station)? And me having no feelings (positive/negative) about this journey? I mean I hate the area where I live since we moved in (last July) and nothing has changed about my feelings, especially I don't feel more "negative" about the place. Possibly if I was raped near the place I live I would get some negative feelings?

Anyway as I said, I really do appreciate your comments on my situation, however I feel that it is just "more than I can take" at the moment, I don't think I can deal with that. And I do not want to accept the fact I might be HIV positive or negative, I need to know for sure. I am not prepared for a positive result.

Lena

Tue 28 Aug 2012 19:48 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hiya Lena -

no need to worry about your long posts. Their length makes them informative and lays bare what exactly you are fighting against, in terms of fear.

I have to make one thing clear, I saw when re-reading my own stuff. I wrote that I see no problem in you doing a HIV test - but I omitted to write that I meant that in conjunction with visiting an expert. That way (and I know this from my own experience) the test will provide you with some ease of mind, and it brings the idea of 'starting with a clean slate', it simply makes dealing with the past easier. But it should certainly not become a habit, not should it stand entirely on its own. Its function is within context, I mean.

Your post of 7:42:09 is again very detailed; it reminds me of feverish detective work to establish what happened, and where the 'danger zones' lie where you could have experienced something dreadful (as you write: your chief concern is having gotten an HIV infection).

You come across as intelligent (and insightful, and witty, and knowing). So you will be aware that HIV is pretty hard to get, in physical terms. Of course protection is strongly to be advised, as is trust in the people who you're intimate with. But usually, some 'rough effort' is required (pardon me my language here). This, and the general picture you have of 'that night', again makes me very sure that nothing strange or unwanted happened to you.

And that is why I really must advise you strongly to tell your GP all about it, and follow on from there. Only in this context, the taking of that test makes sense (so Mike's right, although he phrases it otherwise).

My advice was born out of the sharp contrast between your detailed story of one particular night, the sheer normality, mundanity of it all, and the immense and irrational fears you are suffering from as a result of obsessive, ruminative thinking. You really don't deserve all that pain and torment, believe me. And the best way to confront it head on is: to seek that personal help.

Hope this helps you somewhat, best,

Cuthbert.

PS: and do keep us updated, will you? You're not alone, Lena.

Tue 28 Aug 2012 20:41 #
Mike
Blocked

Lena,

If I read your original post correctly (and please correct me if I'm wrong), there is no evidence to suggest that you had sex with anyone, let alone have HIV. So getting tested is unnecessary. It is also harmful because if you do it, you will be reinforcing the obsessions and you will be worse off than you are now. As I said before, OCD is caused by the inability to cope with uncertainty, which is a very unhealthy way for a mind to work. Learning to cope with uncertainty is the way to overcome OCD.

You say that you need to be certain, but the OCD will likely not be satisfied with a negative test result. There are many "what if?" scenarios the OCD could come up with that could question the legitimacy of the result. In addition, the OCD may latch onto something else entirely, and you will be back at square 1. The best way to fight this anxiety and come out on top is to not get tested.

If you are recently diagnosed with OCD, or don't have much experience with therapy, I strongly recommend you find a CBT therapist who does exposure therapy, as well as a psychiatrist who can prescribe medications, if that turns out to be necessary.

Don't let OCD dictate your actions or control your life. You owe it to yourself, as well as to your family.

-Mike

Tue 28 Aug 2012 21:30 #
Tess
Member

Lena, Mike's advice is sound and believe me, we do understand the emotional turmoil you are going through at present and we are giving you the correct advice. In my opinion it would be far more remiss to start a family when you are very probably suffering from undiagnosed OCD without seeking professional advice than by not having an HIV test in relation to an imaginary fear.
I have learned this the hard way and I am giving you this advice purely for your own welfare and that of your family. OCD needs to be treated in its early stages in order to achieve the best outcome.

Wed 29 Aug 2012 10:36 #
anxious27
Member

Hi Tess and all,

thanks for the advice. Well can I just ask you why do you think that I have this horrid, haunting thought of rape or violent sex in my mind? Somehow I can't get rid of it and it's there for the 4th week now.

If it is not based on reality (as you say) what is it then based on or why do I keep thinking of it?

Thanks.

Wed 29 Aug 2012 17:26 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hiya Lena -

I may be wrong, but you seem to have made a mental shift from 'HIV' to 'rape or violent sex'. Could there be a reason for that, you think, or is my interpretation wrong?

Anyway: clearly you are obsessing over such matters. And they're not based on reality. Well, there it is: it's all completely irrational (a logical foundation just isn't there), and it haunts you, night and day, and holds your mind captive. I think it wouldn't be right to endlessly search for the 'why' of it all.

Let's just distance ourselves a bit from the content of your obsessions, and view them as 'obsessions per se'. Mental viruses that you just can't get rid of. In this respect, there's little difference with my own OCD, or that of others here. I don't know why I got beset with intense fears about my doors and windows not being locked (even when I had locked them). And why they kept on bugging me all day long. And why they spoiled many a day in my life, no matter how much I checked everything, every day.

Although we know quite a bit now about which brain mechanisms are too active, and how these may be related to OCD, it's pretty useless and time-consuming to try to find out the 'why' of it all, or as you phrase it: 'what is it then based on or why do I keep thinking of it?'.

I seem to know you well enough by now that it doesn't surprise me at all that you occupy yourself with these questions. Your desire for control, and knowing, may well urge you to try to look at it all from a 'helicopter perspective', so to speak, and to feel like being in charge, despite the fact that your anxieties hold such negative power over your life.

It's understandable. The enemy is invisible and incomprehensible, yet still we seek to 'tame the monster' by getting to know it, and to know its reasons.

If I were you, I would refrain from these troubling questions, and seek to divert my mind, and concentrate on other things, in so far as possible. If and when you will have a trustful relationship with a therapist, the 'why' issue will no doubt come up again, but in another and more helpful context. Then, perhaps, your life history and personal experiences will be taken into account, when the nature of your fears is examined in depth.

All I can say here is: be patient, and please don't spend all your energy on finding out the demon's motives, all on your own. That is exhausting and can make one depressive.

Sorry for ending on this particular note, but I wanted to honestly tell you what I think is best for you, and: hang on in there, Lena.

Love, best, Cuthbert in Holland.

Wed 29 Aug 2012 18:26 #
Mike
Blocked

Anxious,

You are having these recurring, obsessive thoughts because you have OCD, which is a disorder characterized by inability to tolerate uncertainty.

Wed 29 Aug 2012 18:55 #
Luke
Member

Hi Lena

Hope that your stress levels have decreased a little today and that you are coping ok at the moment.

Yes Mike and Cuthbert are very knowledgeable and they are giving you the right advice in terms of standing up to your OCD

However I would like to add my experiences. I had ocd for years before I went to see a clinical psychologist (via the NHS). I still have OCD now but I have coping mechanisms and whenever possible I will go against my fear, not give into it, take a chance by accepting it regardless of how it makes me feel - Then in the end nothing bad happens and eventually that fear eases off.

However I needed to be in the right place and time to start that help. When I had an irrational fear of having HIV the only way that I could move on was to have a test. The day before the test I thought I was dying. The day after the test that particular fear left me because I believed that the test had been done properly etc. For me, such a weight was lifted off me that afterwards I still had OCD but on lesser things. I was then in a place to start getting support through CBT. That was my experience

Hope that insight helps. Luke

Wed 29 Aug 2012 22:04 #
Tess
Member

Luke, that is an excellent point, it is well nigh impossible to start to learn how to challenge the OCD while we are in a constant state of acute anxiety or depression. Whether or not using avoidance/reassurance to relieve the anxiety in order to achieve temporary relief to start CBT is a much debated point which some hardliners would advise strongly against. However, there does not seem to be any similar objection to using meds to achieve the same result. No doubt this debate will continue for a long time to come but I am personally with you Luke.

Thu 30 Aug 2012 10:28 #
anxious27
Member

Hi
thanks to you all for your replies it is nice to know that people try to help each other. There is one qu
estion though which is not taken into account. Since I was drunk and had an alcohol blackout or selective memory not sure how to call it, is it not possible that the thoughts I have are based on something real,a real event from this evening or night which is now either supressed or unavailable as my brain was not able to store this piece of information into my memory? As I said I do not know if I have OCD or any other mental disorder. I might as well have no ocd and have these feelings based on thruth which unfortunately cannot be accessed any more.

Thu 30 Aug 2012 16:43 #
Mike
Blocked

Yes, it is possible that you did what you fear. That is the uncertainty. As I've said again and again, learning to tolerate this uncertainty (and stopping trying to prove that it didn't happen) should be your goal.

Thu 30 Aug 2012 18:10 #
Truddles
Member

As I said I do not know if I have OCD or any other mental disorder.
You need to see your doctor in order to get a diagnosis.
This isn't doing you any favours by continually analysing the situation and the more that you do so the more the brain will fabricate so confusing you further.
Neither will having a HIV test when there is, as in your case no evidence that it's required, when it comes back negative you won't believe and you'll become trapped in a cycle of repeated testing.
Your best option is to seek professional help in order to get a diagnosis and so access treatment and you need to do so as soon as possible.

Thu 30 Aug 2012 18:17 #
anxious27
Member

Dear all
I haven't posted back for a while. First, thank you to all of you who replied to my posts earlier at the probably worst time in my life.

I just wanted to tell you that I feel so much better now. I had my HIV test done two weeks ago, it was one of the most modern tests available which is extremely accurate at detecting hiv infection at 4 weeks and the results are negative. I might go for another test on Monday, to make it 6 weeks.

I actually don't think anymore that anything happened to me that night, so I don't know why I want to have another test, that is a bit crazy. There is still this little what if thought somewhere in the back of my head, but I learned to ignore it. But I just have the urge to have another hiv test.

However I have to say that I struggled a lot. I developed what I think are panic attacks, and in the week before I took the test, I was having at least one panic attack a day. That was a very scary experience, as I got them on the train from work, in a supermarket or when walking. I still feel depressed but I don't think it's related to this but it's more general state, and although I feel sad and down, I know I cope with it and I'll be fine. As for the anxiety, it seems to be gone which is the main thing.

I just can't believe how crazy I was. It just seems like such a waste of time. And money, too, as I had to pay for the test and it wasn't cheap, but at least it brought me some peace of mind. I also went to a hypnotherapist to help me recall some memories, and this experience also had a calming effect on my nerves.

Lena

Sat 15 Sep 2012 16:42 #
Tess
Member

Hi Lena
Now that you are feeling better I think this would be a good time to start some therapy for your OCD. Maybe you could decide not to have that second test, if you succeed it will boost your confidence that you can get the better of your OCD and it would be a positive step forwards which you can then build on if the fears resurface.

Sat 15 Sep 2012 18:24 #
sus2010
Member

Hi Lena, On ly just caught up with this post. I hope you are feeling better. There has been some good advice on this thread. I just wanted to say I have been in such a similar position with a night out, blackout for about 1/2 hour, did not remember getting on the train only being on it and getting off. Started to wonder as you did, did anything happen, could I have been raped/had sex and not realised. Then the HIV fear. Totally same senario. I know it is the OCD. I know I was in the middle of London in a crowded area and then in a train station. I remember walking home so that part is ok, so the bit where I blacked out was in a place with loads of people. My sister said you went on autopilot, you know how to get home so your mind did not bother to store it. I still worry, but I am coping and I have seen similar posts on this forum so it does happen to others and I understand what you have been through. Knowing I cannot know for sure (I will never know for sure what happened as I was on my own) is really tough but it is something we have to accept as part of dealing with OCD. (I'm also still angry with myself that I drank too much which you may feel as well.)

Tue 18 Sep 2012 16:04 #
anxious27
Member

Hi sus, wow so it's not just me but it happens to other people, thanks for sharing this with me it really does help a lot. Can I just ask you - when did you start thinking about the odds of this happening? I mean, was this one of the first thoughts that was in your mind after you woke up? For me, I remembered talking to some random two guys..but I didn't think anything bad happened until next day when my boyfriend came home and told me that he and the other friend left and I stayed there with these guys...after he has spoken this out, it was like a brick falling on my head and there were milion thoughts in my mind which started like "no memory - being with strangers - date rape drug = they spiked my drink - sexual assault - no memory" and I was playing this thought over and over and over.. until the next day when the other friend told me she knows we left together, but I then run away from them (got angry with my bf). Still this wasn't good for me as then it started again - I got upset with my bf - I went back to the guys and asked for sex, on the toilet, maybe outside in a dark corner ... and I started imagining all possibilites and after a week I wasn't sure what is real and what I made-up in my desperate try to remember. Then the waitress confirmed I didn't stay near the guys and didn't come back. So I was happy for about half a day - And it started again - walking from the station home, something must have happened there - it was one person, no actually two, no it was a gang of black guys and they all raped me.. and so on. I also thought about the odds of somebody taking one of my organs out of my body for the organ market. But I didn't have any scars. And I also saw a picture of myself running around the streets and shouting "please infect me with hiv". And I believed that this happened!

And then I come back home, do my washing, dry my hair, put on my pyjamas, call my boyfriend and tell him I'm sorry we argued, fall asleep and the next morning I don't remember nothing about it?! With no evidence or pain? That is just bizarre! However bizarre it is, and sounds, and everyone I told this to thinks it's really just my paranoid... here I am still worried. Yesterday I had my third hiv test (and hep and other std) and the results will be next monday, so I am still worried to get the results, in case they are positive.

Can I ask you, have you ever had such a scare before? And what helped you realize that it's not a real fer, but only OCD playing with your mind, if you don't mind answering? I hope you are okay now. You say you are still worried - when did it happen? I hope (if everything's negative) to be able to move on with my life. Did you seek any counselling?

Again, sorry for my long post, hope you made it till the end

Lena

Tue 18 Sep 2012 20:03 #
Luke
Member

Hiya Lena
It was all classic OCD, hope you can accept that now. But pleased that you can now be more calm. I also hope that you can now get some support because OCD may well strike with other fears in the future (as it has me, many time) As I said b4, I had the same irrational thoughts, anxieties, fears and panic attacks that I had that disease. I got tested - all fine. I then thought exactly what you wrote below

"I just can't believe how crazy I was. It just seems like such a waste of time. And money, too"

All the best, Luke

Tue 18 Sep 2012 21:23 #
anxious27
Member

Hi Luke,
hope you are well. Thanks for your post. Yes I will look into the option of some counselling or a therapy, I just need to make this first step and make an appointment with my GP. You know I am happy with my results but just to be on the safe side I got tested again yesterday for all different stds incl. hiv. As for all the other tests before, I could have taken them too early, but I hope that the hiv test results should be realiable at 4 weeks... there is a lot of wrong information on the window period and not even nhs offers coherent advice (how confusing). If everything is negative, I'll accept the fact that this indeed was not real; if however something shows positive this will prove that something did happen. Let's hope it's the first one though, I will have to make it through another week of worrying and hope that I will be able to breathe out soon.

Can I just ask you - do you think that it can also do some harm to a person to blame anxiety on OCD - what if you/I will not be able to "recognise" when there is a real risk to us? Say, I start a therapy which will teach me to ignore irrational thoughts. What if I will then confuse rational thoughts with irrational thoughts, and will disregard all of my thoughts and blame it for OCD and therefore will increase any risks that I might take?

Have a good evening
Lena

Tue 18 Sep 2012 21:42 #
anxious27
Member

And just to ask about your situation - have you really been exposed to hiv and therefore were concerned about it, or was it just an irrational obsession (like scratching yourself)? Don't have to answer if it brings back bad memories..

Tue 18 Sep 2012 21:44 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi Lena... The problem with all this is the what ifs... Life is forever giving us what ifs to worry about... With OCD these become almost impossible to knock down... I was listening to a recording of one of my CBT sessions, and the therapist mentions what ifs as I bring them up, almost without me realising I was saying them...I guess we have to allow the what ifs, in the hope that they will die away on their own, the more we bring them up, the more powerful they get... It sure isn't easy is it?
Wannabe

Wed 19 Sep 2012 20:02 #