Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD)Hello everyone,
I'm having a panic to be honest. Today while looking in an Oxfam shop for a cheap vase, I was looking at the DVD's and old games and accidentally knocked some tapes on the floor. I was very embarassed and picked the tapes up. Some of the tapes' boxes broke and I'm really worrying about them. I put them hidden away in the tape pile and walked out of the shop.
I feel awful and my mind's running all over the place,
Please help
Slog
Hi Slog... To err is human, to forgive, divine...
It isn't easy to forgive yourself for this, cos I'd feel the same way as you... In the reality of the situation, the real value of the items to the shop is minimal, cos they were given them in the first place, and you did leave them behind... The cases aren't very secure when they're second hand anyway, already worn and unwanted. The most they could hope for is a small donation in the tin, you cant buy all the stock just cos it fell down on the floor... Anybody else got any ideas? Meanwhile Slog, try not to beat yourself up over this... The most I would do is wander in, casually apologize, give them a fiver in the tin, all sorted... Then I'd boycott the shop because they don't make their displays secure enough... What about doing that for a first idea? Without OCD, most people would just forget about it, but it is difficult for us to deal with percieved guilt in OCD. Chat again in a mo,
Wannabe
Hi Slog,
Sorry to hear your having a rough evening, these panic attacks are truly awful but infact cause us no real harm. At least you are in a place that you 'know' your panicking which I would say in my opinion is a good sign.
All I can say to you is that you didn't purposely knock those tapes over - your a human being - it was an accident - we are all prone to having accidents and there is nothing you or anyone else can do to stop this. Your not a bad person for knocking them over and how do you know for sure they wern't already cracked or broken even before you knocked them over? How do you know the tapes were even working in the first place 
There are so many maybes, probaballys and what-ifs in any situation but you cannot hound yourself with this guilt over something that is very small in comparison to your day to day living
Even if the case was broken its very very unlikely any damage was caused to the actual tape itself - they are very well made and the only real way a VHS/music tape can really stop working is by any damage being caused to the actual film itself inside.
You honestly cant tell me that NO ONE ELSE EVER has knocked something over in that shop. You did the right thing, picked them up and put them back on the pile. Give yourself a bit of a break and just realise it was an innocent accident and no harm has been caused by this.
See this as a positive that your a caring person who hates the thought of causing any damage - give yourself a pat on the back that you are this caring and stop beating yourself up!
I hope this can at least ease your panic and anxiety a little. You Take Care.
ACB 
Hi again, Do you feel a bit better now, Slog? I know it is worrying, but I don't know what else to say... You are a good person who has had a minor mishap, something we have the right to do every so often... We beat ourselves up over the slightest thing don't we? I don't know what else to say, cos I'd be suffering like you I think... We're such sensitive people us OCD sufferers... Oh to sometimes be like those who don't have a care in the world... Keep in touch...
Wannabe
Hello both of you, thank you for your messages I do feel slightly less anxious. Just had a real off day. Walked through town earlier in the rain and felt so depressed. Maybe that's exacerbated everything. I would give them money but I'm really hard up at the moment. Was thinking of donating a few old books but I thought that might be giving into the anxiety...
I certainly beat myself up far too much but I can't help it. I also idealize suicide far too often. I'm too scared to discuss it though.
How are you both today? Hopefully better Wannabe?
Thanks again,
Slog
Hi Slog, I'm not too bad... I worry about my catheter, and about what could happen at the hospital, but there's nothing gonna happen tonight, so I can rest about it I think... I want them to be able to cure me, so I need to go along with everything, try not to be scared, but of course that is easier said than done... I've been reading a bit today... But now I'm exhausted...
Try not to idealise about suicide... It isn't a way out when you have so much to live for... It may not look like it now, but there has to be hope... Sometimes that is all there is, Hope... There are people around you who love you and they want to see you recover too... We are in this together for real, unlike what politicians say! We really are in this together, fighting our way through hellish weather, bleak outlooks with little else but hope... We have to fight on, that's what you tell me! Now we are quoting each other! But seriously, things can get better, and we have to believe that... It is always darkest before the dawn is a good cliche, even though it continues to get darker sometimes... I hope you feel a lot better very soon Slog, please don't consider suicide... I've thought of it too myself, but I don't know, I sort of think things just might get better, and I want to be around to see that...
So stick with this, it will be worth it, it just has to be worth it...
I'm gonna do the same...
Wannabe
Good on you Wannabe, one day forward one day back is the way to live. I can't describe the ideation but I know I probably unless something really nasty happened I wouldn't do it, but I look at light fittings and beams and wonder if they could support me. I can't look at a pile of tablets and think how easy it'd be. But I don't want to actually do it, if that makes sense. I feel like such a basket case 
I hope the catheter goes soon but you'll be stronger for the experience I assure you of that. It'll be a springboard to future success!
I've just put my favorite LP on and have relaxed for a bit. Today's been a nightmare. I'll try and have a better day tomorrow if I can control worrying about these damned tapes. The fact I broke someone's donation really hurts and bugs me. Keep thinking I'm going to be arrested or something ridiculous.
Thanks for talking to me,
Slog
What is your fear? That you broke the tapes? If so, the best way to overcome these obsessions is to counter the obsessions every time they appear, and instead of running away from them or trying to ignore them, or trying to reassure yourself, say "Yes, I broke the tapes". Repeat it until you get really anxious, and then keep repeating it. Repeat it until you get distracted by something else or until the anxiety goes away, whichever comes first. Either way, if you do it enough the anxiety should decrease, and if you keep responding to the obsessive thoughts in this way, the anxiety should decrease to lower levels than it started at.
Hi Slogsweep i can honestly say that after reading your post i could totally relate i have done similar things in the past myself and i have had the same feelings of anxiety after. My initial thoughts before i even read ABC's reply to you was "do you really know that the tapes were in immaculate condition (which i doubt given they are secondhand) before you knocked them over". The chances are that they were in poor condition and were either ready to break or on the other hand after all how many other people have previously knocked them over and just picked them up and put them back. In my opinion i would just put the episode behind you if you can. Chances are if things with you are like with me unfortunately another worry will take the place of the tapes. I am not saying this to make you feel bad just that is what seems to happen with me.
If you are still struggling with it and if you feel it may help to ease some of the anxiety then as Wannabee suggested maybe you could just go in and apologise.
Plese let us know how you go with this, as i previously said i have been in an extremely similar situation which for me the answer was as i said earlier another worry took over. Not sure why that happens i have never understood it.
Take care and if you need to discuss it more just post.
Liz
Hi dear Slog -
I think Wannabe and Liz suggested the right thing. By keeping it all to yourself you 'cultivate' the fears, unwillingly so. It is a human truth that when we're stuck in feelings of guilt about something we may have done, about possible mistakes we made, and we keep all of it to ourselves, then these doubts and fears go lead a live all of their own, and they grow out of proportion.
A good first step could indeed be: to apologise. Human contact is of the essence here. You won't feel alone anymore, that's the first gain. The second will be that the person you address will immediately put you at ease, and reduce your anxiety back to its proper size (i.e. very small, or zero). Perhaps she/he will show friendly laughter, which you might share in. Now that I write this, I think it's a better step than putting some money in a box somewhere, anonymously (although I can appreciate this advice too).
My two cents, ciao, from Cuthbert.
I totally disagree. Going back to the shop and apologizing would be a compulsion; a ritualistic behavior aimed at neutralizing the anxiety. Compulsions are NEVER a good idea, and never make anxiety decrease in the long run. If you feel the compulsive urge to apologize, ask others for reassurance, or try to "make it right" in any other way, the best thing you can do for yourself is to resist these urges with all your might. Once you do one of them, the OCD will just jump to something else. If you hold out and just live with the anxiety, and ideally do exposure like I mentioned before, that is your best bet at overcoming the anxiety. Unless you are very experienced with CBT, however, you'd want to do this with a trained therapist.
Hello everyone thank you for your replies,
I'm spiking all over the place. The news is making me spike, though I've not worried massively today over the tapes. I'm feeling really rather low and I'm apprehensive over my CBT appointment tomorrow.
It's like a snowball effect, I start with something small, like dropping a few old cassettes and now I'm worrying about everything I have worried about in the last nine months or so. I'm so, so bored of this.
I'm not going back to that shop, It'd be giving into something I know to be ridiculous. I was looking at my bookshelf to see what I could give away but that'd be compulsive?
Should I mention this at therapy tomorrow? Or would it be a waste of my limited time?
Thank you all, dearly,
Slog
I was looking at my bookshelf to see what I could give away but that'd be compulsive?If you're doing it to relieve the anxiety that you're feeling then the answer is it would be neutralising the thoughts which you shouldn't really do, but if you were wanting to clear out some books to for instance make more space then there wouldn't be a problem.
The snowball effect occurs because of the anxiety and the compulsions. You need to acknowledge the thoughts that you're having but not engage with them and that includes non physical compulsions. Repeating the same phrase over and over even if it's to say the reverse of the original thought means that you're engaging with the thoughts and this perpetuates the obsessions. It's yet another compulsion!
You're probably all over the place today as you've got your CBT tomorrow and as you've only just started it can make you feel apprehensive. As you progress with the CBT you won't find it so daunting prior to each session. Good luck for tomorrow.
I'd definetly be clearing them out to solve anxiety. I'm not much of a hoarder. I have lots of books but many of them hold sentimental value as I've studied them. I have a big journey tomorrow too could that be affecting things?
I can't stop the snowball thing it's getting me down, I don't know what to do about it.
Thanks Trudy, always much appreciated
Slog
I can well appreciate opinions that are contrary to mine. We all contribute and try to help. I also acknowledge the idea that neutralising anxiety itself may feed forms of OCD.
Thing is: speaking out of personal experience, I think that some spontaneous contact with another person can 'break the ice' with regard to a very minor issue such as this. It can provide relief, and make bad thoughts go away, evaporate even.
Yes, there are rules, general rules regarding OCD and CBT. But these are not set in stone, nor did Moses bring them down from Mount Horeb. Each set of OCD symptoms in a given person is different from that in the next subject with the disorder.
So let's agree to disagree here, up to a certain extent, and in all friendship.
Best, Cuthbert.
Good morning everyone
I'm a bit better from the flu today and thought I'd have a quick look in on the forum as I see Cuthbert has been on and I find his knowledge immensely helpful. Now I wish I hadn't because I am utterly gobsmacked at this thread and particularly Mike's take on it. What ever has happened to morals and ethics or does the single minded approach to resisting all compulsions just override all other considerations.
Slog, we all have accidents and we all make mistakes and I see your problem as a basic lack of self confidence which led you to act in the way you did and then developed into guilt, anxiety and an escallation of your OCD. All you actually needed was the self confidence to be able to deal with the situation at the time by telling the person in charge of the shop what had happened there and then. It is very likely they would have been pleased you had told them, accepted it was an accident and told you to forget all about it. They probably have loads of empty boxes from damaged tapes anyway.
As for what to do now - put it down to experience and learn from it.I don't agree that returning to the shop to explain would be giving in to a compulsion at all, it would be a very moral gesture but unnecessary, because I expect they gets lots of damaged goods and probably didn't notice what happened anyway. However, I do think that boycotting the shop is giving in to your own feelings of embarrassment and lack of self confidence and it would be sensible to address these issues in therapy.
As for agreeing to disagree in friendship I'm afraid Mike's overpowering views are more than I can personally stomach.
Hello everyone,
Honestly I really value and appreciate any opinions that are written to me. I don't want to start arguments though. Really pleased to hear you're in better health Tess. My main worry at the moment is today's CBT but r.e. the shop next time I'm in town I'll make a brief visit, perhaps look at the books or something and quietly leave. I get confused as to what is and what isn't compulsive anymore. I'll ask my therapist today and see what she says. I'll let you all know. One thing I noticed my therapist doing in our first session was that after about 20 mins she seemed to be making a big effort to redirect negativity into positive thought without explicitly stating so. I think she's well aware that I have a major lack of confidence.
Thank you all though,
Slog
Hi there Tess -
great to see you back, m'lady! And good to hear that you are recovering from the flu, it was really a long-lasting affair, if I recall correctly.
I agree with you: Slogsweep could have addressed the shop owner directly, thereby hopefully cutting off any further development of unnecessary fears. But I can very well understand why that did not happen. It is something that one has to learn, if one suffers from severe OCD. If I am right, I wrote something about this just prior to Christmas, about getting slowly used to crowded shops. Human contact is important, that's my experience. Ask where a desired item is; and in case of some accident, look for an assistant and tell what happened. IIRC, my personal and factual example was: I once dropped a bottle of wine, it burst, and the floor tiles got mega-red... the assistant told me not to worry at all and I didn't even have to pay for that bottle. It helped, really.
Your advice is excellent: boycotting won't help here, it would lead to anxiety and feelings of isolation, of being 'cut off' from the world outside, IMHO.
Hey, and I hope you'll quickly recover in full.
Best, Cuthbert.
Hi Tess, I'm sorry about the content of this thread... I'm scared in these situationsa too, though I would probably have done something different... My Self confidence is at an all time low at the moment... I've got this damn catheter to try and cope with, and my CBT exposure stuff is frightening the life out of me at the moment... I'm sorry if I've upset you... Hope you feel much better soon...
Wannabe
Cuthbert,
If you're making contact with another person for any reason other than to neutralize your anxiety, I'm all for it. But slog himself/herself admitted that he/she would only be returning to apologize out of the compulsive urge to do so, and it has been known for a long time that giving in to compulsive urges is counterproductive. It will not decrease obsessions or anxiety in the long run, and even if the obsessions about that particular topic go away (which they usually don't), the OCD will always find something else to make you worry about.
There has been a lot of cognitive and behavioral research on OCD since the 1970's, and the answer is clear-cut: exposure and response prevention has consistently been the most successful treatment. No OCD expert would ever recommend giving in to a compulsion, unless perhaps someone's life was at stake. Each time you do, you strengthen the OCD.
Tess,
Giving in to compulsions is NEVER recommended by OCD experts, and the harm of doing so is well established among psychiatrists and psychologists. It is very clear that in this case going back to apologize would be a compulsion, because it is an attempt to neutralize the anxiety that slog is feeling. It would be very dangerous for a doctor or therapist to recommend giving in to compulsions, and in fact that person should be stripped of his/her license for malpractice. OCD is not only an extremely emotionally debilitating disorder; it can also be deadly. So it is critical to base treatment recommendations on what is supported by studies and evidence, and what experts know to work.
If slog does not have a therapist to work with on this, it becomes quite difficult, because depending on the severity of the OCD and the individual patient, ERP may be too difficult, or even dangerous. So my hope is that slog has, or will soon have, a well-trained CBT therapist to see on a regular basis.
Please everyone calm down... This is not working and things are making me scared now... Slog, I'm sorry that your thread is going a bit wrong...
Wannabe
Hi wannabe
You haven't upset me at all - not now, or ever, and commiserations on the catheter, a truly wretched thing to have to deal with on top of the OCD. I too am sorry that I did not have the self control to express myself a little more moderately. I have huge issues with Mike's views on OCD because in my opinion a psychiatrist who adopted the same view pushed my son into psychosis and suicide.
When I was younger I might well have reacted in exactly the same way as slog because I was acutely shy and had absolutely no self confidence or sense of self worth. I would have just wanted to run away from the situation because of embarrassment and fear of people's attention on me - and then, just like slog I would have paid the price later - even less self confidence, loss of self respect, guilt, anxiety and OCD kicking in to try and protect me and making matters even worse.
I understand all the theories about OCD and each has an important role to play. But I also believe that we can adopt a more holistic view to treating OCD which includes management. If slog had been able to overcome his fears and deal with the matter adequately at the time he would have gained the respect of others, self respect, increased self confidence and closure and probably no spike in the OCD.
? I don't think anyone has gotten overly emotional...we're just offering advice.There is a world of difference between offering support and advice and being dogmatic and trampling over the feelings of those who are extremely vulnerable.
I’ve had the day from hell and to log on to once again see people that I consider to be friends so distressed has really me upset me 
I'm fed up with seeing vulnerable members upset by insensitive and OTT posts.
I'm fed up with logging on to see posts that are akin to something from the Hammer House of Horror.
I’m fed up with the dogma especially when the information isn’t always correct but said with such conviction.
I’m fed up with members being lambasted for something they didn’t actually say.
I'm proud of this forum and the support that we give to each other. We should be supporting each other not frightening each other.
Cuthbert and Tess - as usual excellent advice.
Hello everyone,
CBT was great today. I really do believe I've struck gold with my therapist. I mentioned the shop thing and she said, to paraphrase:
1. I'm overcomplicating the issue. Keep it simple! Was anyone outraged in the shop, no. Relax.
2. Instead of believing you're a bad person, which you aren't, surely worrying over a matter which most less sensitive and compassionate people wouldn't care about shows that you are a kind, caring and thoughtful human being, rather than someone who recklessly vandalises shops.
3. Don't boycott the shop, but draw a line under the incident. Move on and be happy and confident that you are a young man with the world at his feet who should not be ashamed to look others in the eye. Perhaps visit the shop briefly and leave it there.
4. Its the uncertanty of your OCD. (major problem with me). What I believe is bothering you is not the tapes themselves but the opinions of those around you. Your self confidence is so low the slightest knock floors you. You have no reason to feel that way. You're exceptionally resilient and have faced challenges others would run from. Be proud and good to yourself.
We then discussed homework relating to both reducing the need for compulsions and building my non existent (at the moment) confidence. I successfully managed to catch a train and check everything just once, rather than a dozen or maybe more times. I felt anxiety but it died down. I even read a bit of Huck Finn on the train. First time I've picked up and successfully read a book spike free in months and months. I'm smiling as I write that.
I think maybe we're all being a bit defensive here. Debate is part of what makes us human I'd be worried if we didn't disagree sometimes! I love and value the support you all give me and I genuinely treasure some of the fantastic, life saving advice I've had off the members of this site.
Thank you all and best wishes,
Slog
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