OCD Action

Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hiya all -

I'd like all of you very much to contemplate the following: 'how important is seeing/looking/staring in my OCD?'

Being a checker myself, I know that it's essential. I wrote down the simplest procedure, which often took more than an hour for me:

1. I look at something.
2. I conclude that it is all right (faucet off; plug not in socket).
3. I turn around.
4. I want to leave.
5. Fear overtakes me.
6. I still am sure that I looked and that it was/is all right.
7. Still, I feel I must check again.
8. What is the frigging riddle behind all of this?

So: my visual impression was satisfying. But it did not really 'sink in' with me. I can recall it vividly. But the impression seems to be too weak. There are two powers fighting within me: the good one (I know I looked and I know it is OK) versus the bad one (is it really OK???).

If you feel like it, go briefly through the procedure I jotted down here. Every contribution is most welcome; whether your own sequence is different or the same, it's equally important.

I want to know the role of your perception in the terrors of OCD. Because it's a vital, yet underinvestigated area in OCD.

Thanks in advance,

Cuthbert.

Wed Mar 24 2010 16:27:47 #
stevieb
Member

Hello Cuthbert. Mine is similar to yours.

1: I am aware that I am putting the steering lock on the car, and that it is locked.

2: I get out of the car, close the driver's door, and lock it.

3: I pull the handle to make sure that the door really is locked. It is secure.

4: I start to walk away.

5: Am I surethat I put the steering lock on?

6: I go back to check again. It is, but is the locking barrel pressed down? Yes it is.

7: Did I really check that the driver's door is locked? I pull the handle again, and it is locked.

8: What about the other three doors, and the tailgate? I check those as well, they're all locked.

9: I start to walk away, but stop again. Is the bonnet locked down properly?

10: Its front edges are level with the top edges of the wings, so yes it is.

11: Is the driver's door really locked?

12: I check again, and it is.

13: I start to walk away again, but is the driver's window fully closed?

14: I go and check that there's no gap between the top of the window and where it meets the rubber lining. There's no gap.

15: I start to walk away, but have one last look over my shoulder. Have I switched the lights off? Yes.

Now this is only me at my very worst, I'm not always this bad. And there's something else I've noticed about this; these symptoms are far less when I arrive at work, and am thinking more about this. And also about the fact that colleagues my be watching me if I do. So then I don't really go beyond making sure once that the door is locked. And I don't have any urge during the eight hour shift to go back to the car at break and check anything.

I think what is happening in these instances, Cuthbert, is that messages are not reaching the right part of the brain properly. This is a theory which was highlighted in a documentary on OCD, which I saw a few years ago.

The message fails to reach its 'destination' properly, so is caught between the action we perform, and the processing section of the brain. It then passes back and forth between the two like a table tennis ball. So maybe only after several failed attempts to be satisfied that something is safe/okay/secure, do we finally experience the satisfaction we should have had in the first place. This may be caused by faulty neurotransmitters in the brain.

But these sensations only affect us if the thought or action relates to a fear or paranoia we have. E.g, we may repeatedly check plug sockets because we're afraid there may be a fire if we don't. I keep checking the security of my car, because I like my car, need it, and am afraid of it being stolen.

I don't really know the neurology on how OCD plays on these fears of ours, and how, in my case, it doesn't work when I'm too preoccupied mentally with something else.

For example, Cuthbert, you probably wouldn't experience your checking symptoms if you received an emergency phone call from someone you know, and had to dash off from home, or if you'd just received some shattering news.

Perhaps in these situations, the brain produces a higher level of neurotransmitters? And when do other sufferers feel that their OCD symptoms are
worse? During stress, or when relaxed? With me, it tends to be more when I'm relaxed.

But I'm no neurologist, I don't really have the answer, but I do agree with that theory. I hope you've got something here to speculate with, Cuthbert.

Best wishes,
Steve

Wed Mar 24 2010 17:09:41 #
Rena32
Member

Hi Cuthbert, this sound all to familiar.
Here it goes:

1. I get ready to leave for work in the mornings.

2. I stare at the curling iron.

3. I see the plug laying on the counter.

4. I look at the electrical socket, the curling iron is indeed unplugged.

5. I go back down the hall.

6. I stop and think, is the curling iron really off?

7. I turn back around and go back and stare at the curling iron, the plug on the counter and the wall socket, yes, it is still unplugged.

8. I go to the stove

9. I stare at the knobs, they all say OFF.

10. I touch the stove eyes, they are cool.

11. I look at the red on light indicator, it is off

12. I walk a few steps, then go back to the stove and repeat the previous steps to be sure it really is off.

13. I unplug the TV, walk a few steps and then go back and look at the plug, it is on the floor.

14. I look at the outlet, there is no plug in there, it is unplugged.

15. I turn off all the lights, get to the front door and turn back around and do another walk through to make sure the lights are still off and that I did not miss any.

16. I drive to the store, I park at the store, I put the car in park, I pull up the emergency break, I get out of the car, I lock the door, I walk a few steps and then come back and stare through the car window, yes, it is in park, yes, the emergency break is up, I squeeze the door handle, yes it is locked. I walk away, I look back, Is the trunk closed? Yes it looks closed, maybe I should check one more time that the it is in park, the emergency break is on, and that the doors are locked, yes they are, now I can proceed to my destination, Maybe!

17. Finally I leave the store and drive to work, I get out of the car, check everything again several times, I finally get into my work place, my fears, obsessions and compulsions finally subside, I don't think about the curling iron, the stove, the lights or the car anymore, my day moves forward, I have to much to do at work to worry about What if this or What if that.

Yes, the OCD brain some how gets stuck and cannot seperate fact from fiction, something is not transmitting properly, I totally agree with you all.

Thu Mar 25 2010 3:20:33 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Sincerest thanks to Rena32 and StevieB -

this is what I hoped for! Both of you obviously spent time and effort to make your lists. I hope others will join in too.

Stevie phrases is just right: the message seemingly does not reach the right part of the brain. It just won't 'sink in'. Another major point is that the problem is so linked to one's home turf, so to speak.

My idea is that our vision is linked to OCD in a peculiar way. And also that this is not being researched enough. Many, many studies in OCD base themselves, technically speaking, on the visual system (e.g. showing photos of dirt, and then scanning the brain). But they barely mention that the process of perceiving might be implicated in an important way. Perhaps this is because 'seeing' is for most of us so natural that we barely 'see' our vision for what it is: an extraordinarily complicated process, that involves many regions in the brain.

Rena touches upon vision too, very expressive: we all would say, yeah, I just checked all the lights, and what on earth is easier than seeing whether a light bulb is on or off?

But we simply cannot conclude from the above statement that 'it's OK'.

I can say: I just checked whether all lights are out, I'm absolutely sure that I checked. I can also say: hey, I checked, and I certainly would have spotted any light that was still on. Who do you think I am?

And then: a major 'meltdown'. I cannot draw the logical conclusion that things are right and I can go.

For me this is the heart of that mystery within us, a mystery that hopefully one day will be no longer impenetrable.

Cheers, Cuthbert.

Thu Mar 25 2010 11:45:21 #
Daisy Vine
Member

Hello Cuthbert

I've been reading the questions and answers recently on this site, and this particular subject encouraged me sufficiently to register to join this forum. It is the first forum I've been involved in, because after many many years of suffering OCD I thought it was time to start communicating rather than just reading as much as I could about it.

I think this topic hits the nail on the head of the basic problem behind OCD and if only it could be researched more thoroughly, solutions might begin to surface. Why is it that so many of us follow the staring problem you highlighted? I (apologies) was so relieved to see other people responding to you in the same way that I behave with this massive unanswerable question.

I look forward to reading more and hopefully adding something useful to the future conversations too. Its so good to know I'm not so alone in my behaviour traits that appear so odd to the people around me (although generally I try not to let them see me checking, double checking and triple checking) - another skill us people with OCD learn to master.

Daisy

Thu Mar 25 2010 16:41:26 #
Parvez Choudhry
Member

Hello Cuthbert

I think of this phenomenon as being caused by the fact that our brains have 2 compartments. One part of our brain looks at life rationally and it analyses facts objectively like a computer performing calculations. The other part of our brain is intuitive and it determines how we feel about things subjectively. In a normal person both parts work in synchronisation with each other, but in our case they are like the independent eyes of a chameleon! Sometimes we can see that the door is locked or the tap is off, and we can remember we checked it and that we convinced ourselves it was OK, but we are so accustomed to feeling anxious about unlocked doors and running taps that the emotional side of our brain still feels anxious about the door/tap long after web have looked away. Our anxiety doesn't disappear as soon as we become rationally convinced. We then experience a cognitive dissonance - one part of our brain says everything is OK while the other part says something is wrong. Because we are rational creatures we can't easily put up with cognitive dissonance, so our brain tries to resolve the conflict by reasoning that if we still feel anxious then there must still be something wrong. So we look back to check the door/tap again.

Memory, habit, and fear play a large part in this mental process. We remember previous occasions of getting anxious in the same circumstance and we are frightened of another bout of anxiety again. But fear of fear is self-fulfilling - if we fear getting anxious then we will definitely get anxious. Each time we get anxious in that particular circumstance, we are cementing the habit of getting anxious in that circumstance and so making it more likely that we will get anxious in that circumstance in future. The key is to try to break out of this vicious circle, but it usually takes a long time to un-learn a habitual response that has been perpetuated over a long time.

Best wishes,
Parvez

Thu Mar 25 2010 17:17:20 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hi Daisy and Parvez -

thanks to both of you for your illuminating answers. I will study them diligently, as I do with the others. My approach here was inspired by philosophy, basically ancient philosophy. The guys in antique times were always asking 'the first questions' (a trait that all great thinkers share). Einstein once said that his General and Special Theories of Relativism were born after he had studied David Hume.

Scientist have a habit of overwhelming their audiences with facts and figures, and hypotheses; long hours of explanation about genes, mutations, small abnormalities, and so on.

But every great finding starts with seeing the first questions, and realizing their importance.

(Mind: I don't see myself on a par with Hume, Plato and Einstein... it's their approach that I find so inviting. The bottom line is that great thinkers are modest, humble persons.)

Fri Mar 26 2010 11:43:51 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Parvez -

your post reminded me of a TinTin book. Captain Haddock was imprisoned on a ship by gangsters. Now, the good Cap'n has a beard. He laid himself down to sleep. Then one of the criminals opened the hut door for a minute, and said to Haddock: 'Think, man: will you sleep with your beard above, or beneath your blanket?'

The Captain had never pondered this in his whole life. But now, he was ruminating all night long about whether he should do the one, or the other...

Fri Mar 26 2010 11:47:02 #
Parvez Choudhry
Member

Cuthbert - thanks for the anecdote about Captain Haddock!

I used to struggle to convince myself that I had switched off my bedroom light. In those days I was phobic of wasting money by leaving electrical appliances switched on unnecessarily. Imagine me standing in my bedroom next to the light switch. It is evening time and pitch dark outside the house. The light in my room is on. My door is fully shut and no light can get into the room from the rest of the house.

1. I press the light switch off and I hear the click.

2. Instantly the room becomes dark - I cannot see anything except blackness.

3. Part of me thinks the light is now off but another part of me feels slightly uncertain. Am I mistaken? Have I misinterpreted what my eyes are telling me? Is what I am 'seeing' the same as what I would expect to see if the light were off?

4. I turn the light back on to contrast what I see when the light is on with when it is off. (I never had any difficulty being sure when the light was on - I only had difficulty being sure when it was off!) Yes, what I see is very different when the light is on - I can see my bed and my desk and my chair. I can see the carpet is red and the curtains are green and the walls are white.

5. I press the light swwitch off again and hear the click. The sight of my bedroom interior disappears and is replaced by total blackness. I am 99.999% sure my light is off but I still have a niggling doubt.

6. I stretch my eyelids open as wide as possible to make sure the blackness I think I am seeing is not merely due to me accidentally keeping my shut. I then stare in many different directions to make sure it is black all round me and not just in one spot. I'm still not convinced.

6. So I switch the light back on and try again. This time when I press the switch off I concentrate on the physical action of pushing the switch with my finger and I listen out carefully to register the clicking sound. My brain clearly perceives the switch yield with a sudden jerk under pressure from my finger and I hear a distinct clicking sound. Instant darkness. All done! .... but still some anxiety lingers.

7. I turn the light back on in frustration. I know I'm being absurd but that nagging anxiety won't go away. And whatever must the neighbours think I am up to when they see my light going on and off like a Belisha beacon!

So sometimes it's not just a case of doubting what you saw when you checked something a few minutes ago but even doubting what you are seeing right now.

Fri Mar 26 2010 13:44:52 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hi Parvez -

again: many, many thanks for your thoughtful post! It really helps to read individual experiences like this one. I will, as I said, study this thread in depth tomorrow morning, and let it all sink in then. Currently I am finding comparable experiences in people with body dysmorphic disorder; not literally, but metaphorically.

Your post made me think of my faucet obsession. I could see a faucet. I could see it was off. I could say loud to myself: it's off, and I don't hear the sound of running water, not even a trickling drip.
And yet... I always ended up turning the knobs to the right with extreme force, to make sure it was REALLY off. Once, my shower faucet knob for hot water gave in. It simply broke off, and hot water spouted from the hole with full force. I panicked, but once I calmed down a bit, I turned off the central faucet that controls all others.

The workman who came to repair the shower next day got very curious. He said he'd never seen anything like it: a copper alloy tube being torn just like that... a real crack in the metal.

I said: strange, yes... because I could not tell him that that was the result of applying extreme force to the faucet knobs for years.

Yup - OCD is an odd disorder...

Ciao, Cuthbert.

Fri Mar 26 2010 14:27:58 #
Parvez Choudhry
Member

In order to retain assurance that something is off or locked after you have looked away, it may be helpful to stare at the faucet/light switch/padlock and invent a bizarre image in your head associated with what you are looking at. For example, if you are staring at a dial on a cooker and you can see it is pointing to the word OFF printed on the cooker beside the dial, but you know that 2 minutes after walking away you will begin to doubt that the cooker is off, then while looking at the dial imagine a small apparition of Captain Haddock sitting on the dial with his black beard resting on the second F of the word OFF. Then 2 minutes later when you begin to question whether you really did see the dial in the OFF position, you will be able to vividly recall seeing Captain Haddock's beard on the word OFF and because it was such a bizarre sight you may find you have no doubts that you really saw the dial was off. It may help to use a different bizarre image on successive days to avoid confusion.

"Ten thousand thundering typhoons!" as Captain Hadddock would say.

Fri Mar 26 2010 17:06:16 #
Daisy Vine
Member

Hello Parvez and Cuthbert

Following on from Parvez's advice above, I just wanted to add that I too do a similar form of memory jogging. I look at the tap or door (or whatever is concerning me) and think of a number or word for it. I repeat that number or word several times and walk away repeating it until I've stopped worrying. It doesn't always work successfully, but often it helps to prevent me returning for a second or third look.

Daisy

Fri Mar 26 2010 20:40:16 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Thanks to Parvez and Daisy Vine -

very helpful stuff. Somehow, the memory that seems to be deceiving us so terribly, can be overruled by forming a mental association. In Parvez' case it is: linking a visual image with something so odd that it's 'glued' in the brain in the proper spot, much more tightly than with 'looking' alone. In Daisy's case, it's a word or number that does the trick. I think these strategies are pointers to the central idea that solely vision isn't sufficient. Some self-construed inner idea, together with visual perception, is.

Ciao, Cuthbert.

Sat Mar 27 2010 8:23:40 #
Blueskies
Member

[quote]Scientist have a habit of overwhelming their audiences with facts and figures, and hypotheses; long hours of explanation about genes, mutations, small abnormalities, and so on.

[b]But every great finding starts with seeing the first questions, and realizing their importance.

Hiya there Cuthbert and all those who have contributed to this post.
I have found this fascinating Cuthbert. I agree with your above comment and whilst I appreciate the above I like many always had a passion to find my own way, purly by life experience. The spiritual aspect of healing has a great deal to do with my ongoing healing.

The use of meditation teaches mostly about our 5 senses and how we observe the world around us. It has helped to make some useful connections regarding many questions like,' WHO AM I'. My OCD, is like another person or a combination of beliefs from major influential people in my life. For me this question evolves from searching for the cause of my symptoms rather than the effects.

I have experienced most of the lists of observable habits all of you have mentioned here listened and read well , regarding looking.

When I use to check my cooker, yes I did all those habits, I also knew how it began. I realised one day that I didn't use smell or hearing, or touch in my quest to seek evidence to these apparently absurd behaviours. Checking is related to safty and trust with me. Hearing is related to not wanting to hear abusive and feeling afraid, seeing is not wanting to believe that such horrific controlling behaviours could seriously disturb me. Touching is making sure that I am glued to reality when control causes depersonalization or dissassociation.

All the actions to my behaviours are negative actions and reactions to a belief from my childhood. It is this distortion that causes me to doubt what is my experience from those of my carers. Fear always attempts to rob a person of their own senses, identity, self confidence is nill, trusting is nill. But because I am inherently not totally controlled but have an awareness that things are not as they appear to be, I have learnt that my own senses of my own truth ' the true self' that watches and observes all the actions, that appear to be real, I can distinguish one reality from the other and this is ongoing as I have much to learn. I have been writing since I was 31 and this realisation only came into my awarness a few years ago. I am now 48.

Being controlled and manipulated is extremely hard to seperate the truth from a lie. To a person who has been controlled, A lie is a truth, and a truth is a lie. which statement is real? That is the question I have been attempting to answer for all my life, the mystery like you say, to unfold, to evolve to become!!

My experience of OCD is a manifestation of extreme control and manipulation! but I am constantly working on these beliefs and making steady progress in believing in me!!

Great Topic!!!!

Sun Mar 28 2010 12:43:22 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hi Blueskies -

thank you for a most intelligent and passionate reply! Nice to see the topic in another perspective: the idea of 'getting liberated' is very appealing. In your own way you have addressed the first questions also.

My own concern in the matter is: trying to find a way to avoid 'fragmentation'. First, researchers thought that one major gene, or two genes at the most, could be responsible for OCD. But that changed. It turned out that it may be many genes, all with a tiny contribution. This is frustrating, because to find a gene that is involved in a minor way, one has to use very large groups of patients, and to compare their DNA with that of healthy subjects. But then the next problem arises: large populations that are 'pure' are hard to find; 'pure' means: homogeneous. The more individuals differ, the harder is the finding of a serious conclusion. Because large groups involve: mixed gender, mixed ages, mixed regimens of medication (or no medication at all), mixed comorbidities (like bipolar, depression, psychosis, and so on), and other mixed factors.

That is troublesome. Before you know it, you're stuck in a 'mud' of many, many different parameters.

That is why I found the thought of looking at 'first questions' so appealing. One preliminary conclusion is for me: the act of seeing, and interpreting that what we see, is so natural and obvious, that researchers tend to overlook it.

(TBC!!!)

Thank you again, I feel flattered...

Ciao, Cuthbert.

Sun Mar 28 2010 13:18:50 #