OCD Action

N.O.C.D.
Member

Re this shocking article - its bad enough it itself that these poor animals should have died in this way, but since when does having OCD make you forgetful?? Most OCD sufferers have excellent memories and are hypervigilant. The suggestion that OCD and depression was the cause of the first handler to behave irresponsibility and for his dogs to subsequently die, is beyond me.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2008691/Sergeant-Ian-Craven-suicide-bid-police-dogs-die-baking-heat-car.html

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Soxon
Moderator

Tue Jun 28 2011 7:15:26 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

I thought it was PC Johnson, the handler named in the second case? At any rate, I guess it is the total unfamiliarity of those involved, and the journalist, with OCD and depression, which is the cause of this type of misunderstandings.

As you say, it is most unlikely that one forgets two dogs being enclosed in an overheated car, as the result of OCD. And I'd say that depression is just as incredible as a potential reason. Someone with OCD would go out of his/her depths to make sure that every safety measure had been observed - and someone with depression would, even if he/she would have been incapacitated as a result, have made a phone call or given off another sort of message, so that the animals would've been looked after.

So much for what can be deduced from the article. As far as I can see, there could be a secondary problem involved - like being overmedicated, or wrongly medicated. Perhaps sedatives were involved, or alcohol.

But I don't want to speculate too much. However, it is sad that the average layperson will take this with him/her after reading the report: 'people with OCD and depression are not to be trusted with tasks involving responsibility'.

Awful, that is.

Tue Jun 28 2011 7:53:47 #
Tess
Member

Hi Number 6
I agree with you entirely. I have chronic OCD and depression, my husband has severe depression and we are both on medication. We have a smallholding which we run as a permanent home for otherwise unwanted animals and birds. We have four dogs and they are always taken with us when we go out. Never ever ever would we leave them in an enclosed car in the sun whatever we were doing. In fact I think our own mental health problems make us scrupulously careful. If they have to be left we park in shade, leave windows and roof open and a non-spill dish of water with them and we have their welfare constantly in mind while they are alone and return as quickly as we can. In the case of the Police dog handler my opinion is that OCD and depression have been used as an excuse to a trial judge who would be unaware of the true nature of OCD to minimise punishment for what was an inexcusable offence. If the officer was well enough to be employed as a dog handler then he was well enough to look after them properly and it's digraceful to misuse OCD in this way.

Tue Jun 28 2011 9:21:15 #
BT
Member

What the hell were the police thinking, allowing Craven to work with dogs a second time (after leaving a dog to die in a car previously)?

As for Johnson and the OCD and depression ‘excuse’ this will have done us no favours at all. However, like with anyone here, my greatest concern is with the suffering of those dogs. The police need stricter monitoring with their dog handlers. I have seen many beat dogs into submission during training.

Obviously, the majority with OCD are extremely caring and conscientious, but not all are. I knew one person with OCD who used to kick her wonderful German Shepherd when she was frustrated, she actually ruptured its spleen. Her OCD did not cause her to act like this, but her personality.

I think we do vary in personality a great deal. Sometimes there have been tragic cases of animal ‘hoarders‘, whose dozens of cats, dogs etc were badly neglected. At least one article I have read stated that an individual’s OCD was to blame for such cruelty. Again, this can only have harmed how the general public perceives OCD.

I think if we are compared with the general population, we would emerge favourably, with a higher percentage of caring, conscientious people. It’s tragic for us (and of course any victims) when negligent or cruel behaviour is blamed on a person’s OCD or depression.

Tue Jun 28 2011 12:56:09 #
N.O.C.D.
Member

Here is another news article relating to the same incident. See quote no 287 by "overtaxed for life" and also the subsequent replies. It makes my blood boil, to think what damage, a careless and most probably incorrect diagnosis, of the 2009 handler's state of mind, when he allowed his dogs to die, could create for genuine OCD and depression sufferers.

Tue Jun 28 2011 14:30:01 #
N.O.C.D.
Member

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/dog-death-cop-flees-post-suicide-bid-080547476.html

Tue Jun 28 2011 14:30:48 #
BT
Member

I read that article before coming to the forum. I’ll sound like an unsympathetic bitch, I’m sure, but I am not convinced it was a suicide attempt. Would anyone make that same terrible mistake twice (leaving dogs to die in a car)? I’m sure he is distraught, but more likely about his career and how he will be treated.

As you said, Number Six, the OCD ‘excuse’ for the other officer is mentioned again. More will certainly share Overtaxed for life’s view, that’s for sure.

Tue Jun 28 2011 15:28:55 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Perhaps this is helpful:

I think that we should try not to make too much of the many sad and ignorant comments on the story. Readers who write in to newspapers on the internet, esp. in the case of more sensationalist rags, tend to be driven by feelings of anger, dissatisfaction, and revenge. If I browse the responses to news in Dutch paper 'De Telegraaf', or the German scandal-sheet 'Bild-Zeitung', I can get sad and disappointed - but when I take a bit of distance, I realize that those comments aren't representative of the real world outside; at most of a certain section of it, people that are easily morally outraged, even if they know zilch about the subjects that have been written about.

Or let me put it this way: I don't think the BBC's 'Late News', or 'Newsnight' have mentioned OCD and depression in the context of what happened (if they treated the story at all, that is).

Ciao, Cuthbert.

Wed Jun 29 2011 12:22:41 #
BT
Member

Cuthbert, I usually watch ‘Newsnight’, but have missed the beginning of each programme this week, so I have no idea if the story was covered, and, if it was, whether Johnson’s OCD and depression were mentioned. However, the viewing figure of the programme is only around one million, the readership of the tabloids is far greater and I fear that people who read these newspapers do believe such statements.

On Newsnight, back in 2008, Jeremy Paxman interviewed the former prime minister of Norway (with a good deal of empathy). You may have heard that Kjell Magne Bondevik bravely spoke out about his depression. I believe the Norwegian people re-elected him after his depressive episode. Which I felt was a very hopeful shift in public opinion, albeit Norwegian public opinion - I doubt people would respond the same here in Britain. I hope I am wrong.

When Kjell Magne Bondevik was interviewed by Jeremy Paxman, he said there was a great need to speak about depression and to normalise it. He asked why it is more difficult to speak about such things. Jeremy Paxman replied ‘Because, I guess, people think that if you have a mental illness you are incapable of functioning properly, making sensible decisions, behaving rationally. I guess that’s it, they’re scared.’ The former prime minister added that is true, when you are ill (depressed) you can’t function rationally.

Although this was handled in the best possible taste, and, judging by Jeremy Paxman’s remarks after the programme, it is clear that he has great respect for the Norwegian, there is still that element of there being a lack of rational thinking and behaviour on the part of the depressed person. Even the former prime minister himself agreed with that.

I don’t see this view ever entirely changing. Partially through ignorance, but, sadly, some people with depression do act in irrational, and sometimes dangerous, ways. I have not heard of a case of an OCD sufferer behaving badly because of her or his condition, but Johnson was also said to have had depression.

Combining facts with people’s (often fear-based) exaggerated views, fed to them via the tabloids, I still share Number 6‘s view, this latest article is a step backwards for us. Likewise, when the words ‘obsessive’ or obsessional’ are used to describe a serial killer, which has happened several times on the national BBC news.

Thu Jun 30 2011 13:42:57 #
N.O.C.D.
Member

Re this next link

http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/news/2011/07/03/cheryl-cole-i-dumped-derek-hough-because-he-has-ocd-115875-23243324/

Could it be, that when anyone doesn't know how to respond to the question "Why did you do, what you did?" they can always fall back on the good, ol' well worn excuse "Well it's because I/she/he, has OCD!!"

I rest my case!

Sun Jul 3 2011 20:09:57 #
Tess
Member

Hi Number6
Case proven methinks.

Mon Jul 4 2011 8:39:05 #