OCD Action

slogsweep
Member

Hello everyone, I'm sorry to ask for support on Christmas eve.

Basically I have a huge fear of Motor Neurone disease. Two members of my family, an uncle and my grandad both died from the disease from different sides of the family. My mom picked out loads of personality similarities with my uncle and I have similar interests to my Grandad. I'm scared I'm next. I've already had the one hereditary curse with OCD, I'm terrified of another curse.

I'm sorry everyone, have a wonderful Christmas all of you, you've done so much for me.

Best wishes

Slog

Sat Dec 24 2011 19:10:36 #
Twitchy
Member

Hi Slog, don't apologise, worries can strike anytime. Please don't panic,(easier said than done i know.) I don't know much about motor neurone disease but i know the more we stress the worse we feel and our minds will just run wild with endless possibilities making us feel physically ill as well as mentally. Have you discussed this with your GP?

Sat Dec 24 2011 19:29:26 #
blueboy
Member

hi slog,
saw your post and didnt want you to feel on your own on this..
i dont have much knowledge of that condition..and i am therefor not sure if it is hereditery... my parents both died of heart conditions... and i must admit i worried about that and became very careful with my diet cutting out so much fat etc... but then again they smoked... so im not totaly like them as i dont smoke...
i guess there are things we can all do to promote our health..i know its hard but i would try not to dwell on it.. we can all only do so much..and i have found that the worry i had before took up most of my life.. when i should have been enjoying it..thats all any of us can do , enjoy what we have..then we face adversity with the knowledge that we embraced life as much as possable.. i guess this isnt much good to you..the chances of you developing that illness i'm sure are pretty slim...just take care of yourself and remember we cant control everything ..we deal with life as it comes..

Sat Dec 24 2011 19:34:51 #
slogsweep
Member

Thank you for replying. I do feel awful asking for advice at this time. I'm too scared to mention it to the GP. They both suffered greatly. I guess it's just the time of year, having them in my thoughts more than usual.

I don't know, nothing like OCD to ruin festivities.

Happy Christmas to the both of you,
Slog

Sat Dec 24 2011 19:59:12 #
tizzkins
Member

Hi Slog please dont ever feel like you have to apologise on this site we are all in the same ocd boat so to speak.

I can totally understand where you are coming from with your thoughts on motor neurone disease i have thoughts about other illnesses. I am not a doctor but i do know that whatever worries you have ocd always seems to be able to magically magnifies them. My advice would be if you are still concerned after christmas go and have a word with your g.p. until then try and relax and i know thats easier said than done because i am in my own house trying to do the same thing to get through christmas.

I will log on tomorrow just in case you need to talk more. I am doing as little as possible tomorrow.

Liz x

Sat Dec 24 2011 19:59:33 #
slogsweep
Member

Thanks Liz, it's an absolutely terrifying disease. Think my Grandad and Uncle died while I was at my formative stage (I was 8 when Grandad died, and 10 when my Uncle died) I'm trying to forget about it by watching TV and reading my Christmas cards.

Thank you both for your help. I guess I was feeling sour because, being young, I'd like to be out at the Christmas parties with everybody, but because of my meds and no longer drinking, I'm stuck in. It's really nice to get some time with the family though, being at Uni.

I really looked up to my Uncle. He played for the Barbarians a few times in Rugby and was one of the brightest men you'll ever meet. He was a physicist too, the family's Superman. Then he died, at 50, after ten years living with this horrible disease. What he turned into near his death I'm still terrified of.

Thanks guys, once again,

Slog

Sat Dec 24 2011 21:08:19 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi Slog, I don't know what to add that hasn't already been said... It is totally natural to have health fears... I have a history of all sorts of things in my family, and I do sometimes wonder if I'll get the same... I already have some of the same, but not the life threatening ones... My Dad suffers from crippling problems later on in life, and yet I show no signs of getting the same... There are no guarantees at all in health, and there's no saying what will come in the future, but the right now is right now, and is real... I think that is what they mean by mindfulness... You deserve to be happy for the time we have to live on this life, you've always been there for me, and all of the wonderful people on this website... There is no guarantee that you will inherit anything from you're relatives... You really don't, there are other factors that need to become involved genetically...
A worse thought would be to be deep in thought about this, as you step out in front of a bus without looking... It is something to deal with, if it ever arrives... Because it might not... So it is best to be hopeful for whatever comes... You deserve to be happy...
wannabe

Sat Dec 24 2011 22:31:11 #
slogsweep
Member

Thank you Wannabe, I've never had to deal with serious health anxiety before. It's been building up with me as other fears have lessened. At least this is something we can all relate to (though with different conditions).

Be hopeful, that should be a motto for life in general, not just the OCD fight,

Thanks Wannabe, happy Christmas,

Slog

Sat Dec 24 2011 23:11:24 #
wannabefree
Member

You're welcome Slog, you do the same for me too... So it is thanks from me to you...
Happy Christmas...
Wannabe

Sat Dec 24 2011 23:20:19 #
Mike
Member

Fear of contracting an illness is a very common OCD problem. It's not surprising, since illness is one of the scariest things that can happen. First, make sure you don't do any reassurance-seeking behavior, such as researching the disease online, trying to figure out the odds of you getting the disease, trying to look for evidence that might suggest that you may or may not get the disease. If you are able to do this without having too much anxiety, you can move on to the exposure itself. Every time you find yourself worrying about it, tell yourself "yes, I may develop motor neuron disease" (Because when it comes down to it, it is a real possibility, and you have no choice but to accept this possibility. Trying to convince yourself that it won't come true is useless, because the OCD will never be satisfied with whatever evidence you present it. The OCD wants you to make 100% sure that you won't get it, but this is unattainable, so you need to train your mind to accept the possibility that you might get MND).

Once you've done this a million times you probably won't feel anxious about it, but if you still find yourself obsessing and feeling anxious, move on to the next level, which would be to imagine yourself going to the doctor, hearing the words that you have MND, then imagining exactly what your life would be like with MND, how difficult each day would be, how anxious you might get, etc.

Of course, all this should be done with a trained behavioral therapist to coach you along.

Wed Dec 28 2011 16:37:46 #
Tess
Member

Mike, I'm afraid I see this differently to you. Some years ago I had a small breast lump - my GP referred me to a hospital consultant who examined me and said "I don't think it's anything nasty but we'll have you in as soon as we can and take it out" and then he walked out without another word leaving me absolutely distraught. So after wandering round in a daze sobbing I went to the library and spent a couple of hours reading about breast cancer and I learned that 98% of all breast lumps are benign - and that knowledge helped me enormously. Some health worries are clearly totally irrational and 100% OCD but in slog's case I don't think that knowing about statistics is likely to cause any escallation of the OCD or make it more entrenched, it is just basic factual information which might even bring peace of mind. I know nothing about MND but I've just googled it and I've discovered that genetics is not thought to play a significant role and the chance of anyone getting MND is just 2 in a hundred thousand. Not only that it primarily affects people who are over 50 years of age. Strikes me slog that there's a lot of life ahead of you and taking care of your body and mind by adopting a healthy lifestyle is the best way forward to minimise your already miniscule chances of getting this illness. Of course you are going to worry about MND, it claimed the lives of two of your close relations when you were too young to deal with it emotionally. But I'm unconvinced that tormenting yourself by playing over the worst possible future scenario again and again in your mind is the only way to overcome this fear. I prefer to think the fear can be faced and overcome by empowering yourself with knowledge and using rational thought.

Wed Dec 28 2011 18:28:31 #
Unregistered

Hi Slog,

Mike and Tess both raise really good points.

I'm really grateful to Mike for mentioning Dr Jonathan Grayson in one of his posts. I've been reading Dr Grayson's website, and a section of his book, and I think his approach is absolutely fantastic. (I believe Mike said he actually was treated for his OCD by Dr Grayson; correct me if I'm wrong, Mike.)

Dr Grayson's approach appears to be very much focused on the ERP (exposure and response prevention) part of the therapy. On his website he answers posts by OCD sufferers, and his answers are just brilliant.

What I love about his approach is that he's very much focused on OCD as being essentially a problem about being unable to deal with uncertainty. As I understand it (having read his stuff only recently), his approach centres on the understanding of what you are being "exposed" to in the ERP tasks. He points out that some CBT therapists will (wrongly) tell you that the exposure tasks are meant to "prove" that there is no real danger. Dr Grayson points out that, in fact, the purpose of the exposure tasks is not that at all; the purpose is to teach you how to live with uncertainty.

I think this is really important stuff, and the way he describes OCD is excellent. Dr Grayson divides different types of risks into "high probability risks" and "low probability risks". (He points out that, even when there is a genuine risk or danger, and even when it is a high probability risk, we are still perfectly capable of living with the uncertainty that that dreaded event might actually happen.

So he stresses that the purpose of an exposure task is not, for example, to prove to you that there is no danger that you might get a specific disease that you have become obsessed with. Instead, he stresses that your recovery is dependent on you learning how to live with the possibility (the uncertainty) that you may or may not get that specific disease.

As Mike points out, this type of work needs to be done with a mental health professional -- and one that is experienced at dealing with OCD.

So, by this approach, the question is not, "Am I in danger of catching [x] disease?" Instead, the question is, "How can I learn how to live with the uncertainty around the possibility of catching [x] disease?"

Take care.

Wed Dec 28 2011 19:05:50 #
Wombat140
Member

And I don't know what in tarnation your personality is supposed to have to do with it, let alone your interests. That's just daft.
Anyway, the point is, it doesn't matter NOW whether you might get it in the future or not. Worrying about it is no use for anything except upsetting you, so you needn't bother. (Easier said than done of course; but try to bear it in mind the next time your brain starts asking about it.)
I do hope you feel better soon. All the best, Wombat140

Wed Dec 28 2011 20:29:48 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi everyone, How's it going Slog?
Wannabe

Wed Dec 28 2011 20:40:47 #
slogsweep
Member

Thanks everyone for such lengthy and informative replies. I don't think I suffer from health anxiety as such. In my life at the moment my girlfriend's mother has cancer, and it's bringing back a lot of painful memories about my granddad, uncle and my late nan.

I do check myself regularly for lumps and such, but only on the advice of my English teacher, who I thought the world of (one of the few teachers to ever have real faith in me, she's why I'm doing an English degree.) Sadly her husband passed away suddenly to cancer and she said, "better to check than find out too late".

Thank you for finding those statistics out Tess, they have made me feel better. Mike I do really appreciate your approach, and it is working with my compulsions, but I get too much anxiety without a therapist to guide me with intrusive thoughts. I'm reading up on the thought acceptance and I can't thank you enough for the progress you've made possible for me.

I don't quite know what's going on with me at the moment. Every day it seems a new worry is trying to fill the gaping void left by the old one. Today it was money. I worried so much I gave into a spending compulsion and blew £60. Yes I have had Christmas money and have been able to save £50, but I still worry all the same. I'm so bored of being hard-up and a student, can't wait to finish my dissertation and be in a job, but the job seeking part terrifies me because I often choke at interviews. The only jobs I've ever had have been without an interview. I've failed every single one.

So there's another one, my future. Another worry. My CBT, money etcetc.

Is my OCD trying to find a new angle to hit me from? Last year was ruined through money anxiety. I'm having bouts of health and money anxiety all the time at the moment.

Wannabe, thanks for asking, I'm ok. I feel bad about spending £60 today on myself, but I love the two hats and trousers I bought. Maybe I didn't need any of them, but perhaps clothes will make me feel more confident. I became rather tatty due to my OCD. I've always enjoyed fashion, but I'm not sure why. It could be a barrier to hide behind. I still look at my reflection in shop windows not through vanity but through disgust.

How are you my friend? I hope you're merrily gorging yourself on Fruit & Nut and have had a lovely Christmas,

Slog

Wed Dec 28 2011 22:22:18 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi Slog, Christmas wasn't too bad... Had cheese on toast for lunch! We'd got guests and they like it so that is what we had... Had a slightly bigger dinner in the evening, with a few trimmings... Had almost a whole bar of fruit and nut yesterday! It's a wonder I haven't got toothache! Good stuff on treating yourself today... We should treat ourselves more, even when money is short if we do things in the budget sort of... It gives our self esteem a boost, and yes I agree, buying clothes will help... I try to plan what I'd like to treat myself to, but it is mainly inexpensive chocolate!
I follow what you mean about seeing our reflections... I hate going into shops where there are a lot of mirrors, I hate looking at my reflection, thus I sometimes go several days without shaving, and I become a right scruff! I literally forget about what I look like, and I don't want to see the weariness in my eyes...
wannabe

Wed Dec 28 2011 22:39:29 #
slogsweep
Member

My word that sounds so familiar. I used to be almost known for having a quirky and distinct fashion sense. These last few months I've been draped in grey and brown, hiding from the world. I'm not in budget but sort of am. My avaliable funds in my account look fine...the student overdraft numbers are terrifying however. Maybe clothes will help.

I might start eating Fruit and Nut instead, I love the stuff. Also you've reminded me to have a shave! And I really fancy some cheese on toast!

Does everyone with OCD have this esteem problem you reckon?

Glad you're doing ok,
Slog

Wed Dec 28 2011 23:15:36 #
wannabefree
Member

Yes Slog, I agree, I do think that low self esteem goes in hand with OCD... And Fruit and nut is good for you, or at least I hope it is!
wannabe

Wed Dec 28 2011 23:18:17 #
wannabefree
Member

By the way, Cheese on toast isn't really good for supper as it is heavy on the stomach... Makes a great breakfast though!
Glad you're doing okay too!
wannabe

Wed Dec 28 2011 23:26:13 #
slogsweep
Member

I choose to believe it is Wannabe, even if I'm told otherwise. It's better for me than smoking anyway .

That Gillian McKeith can shut up, I'm eating Fruit and Nut. I have OCD and damnit I deserve chocolate and good chocolate at that!

Slog

Wed Dec 28 2011 23:47:01 #
wannabefree
Member

Absolutely... I agree 100% ! It is also cheaper than smoking!
Here's hoping you're okay today...
wannabe

Thu Dec 29 2011 19:29:24 #
Mike
Member

Tess,

If one is worrying about an illness in a non-OCD way, such as the situation with your breast lump, there is no need to do ERP therapy because you are dealing with the situation the way everyone else would - you are able to deal with the uncertainty regarding whether or not you had breast cancer. If you WEREN'T able to deal with the uncertainty, you would start obsessing and doing ritualistic, unhealthy, excessive behaviors to try to prove to yourself that you didn't have breast cancer. This might include checking the same statistics again and again, feeling the lump again and again, going to a million different doctors just to make "sure" that they all said the same thing.

However, it is not possible to prove 100% that one does not have breast cancer, unless all possible tests have already been performed. Someone without OCD would acknowledge the possibility that she had breast cancer, but wouldn't do all the excessive ritualistic compulsions. If breast cancer was the current focus of someone's OCD (like MND is now for slog), however, these ritualistic behaviors will prevent the OCD from ever letting up. Compulsions feed the OCD cycle because they attempt to change EMOTION with LOGIC, which doesn't work.

There's something called The Gun Test, in which we can use the example of slog being afraid of developing MND. Let's say that we know from doing research that slog's chance of developing MND, including his family history, is 1 in 50 (I'm just making up a number). Slog knows this, but this does not make his obsessions go away. He may even begin to question the statistics themselves, and do background research to see if the research was done correctly. He may contact doctor after doctor after doctor to see what they say, even though they all come up with the same answer. You might think that slog's excessive fear about MND is due to lack of rational thinking, and that a dose of rational thinking (cognitive therapy) would rid him of his obsessions, but this is not so. If someone held a gun to the head of the person he holds most dear and told slog to guess whether or not he will develop MND, slog would guess that he wouldn't, because he knows the chance is only 1 in 50. OCD sufferers get the answer right in the imaginal Gun Test scenario EVERY TIME.

This shows that OCD sufferers almost always know that their fears are irrational. And since the compulsions try to reassure them that their fears are irrational, but this doesn't work (otherwise everyone would be able to cure their own OCD simply by doing the kind of research you suggest), there must be a better method of treating OCD. And that method, which is the same method that works best for treating people with all different kinds of fears, phobias and anxiety, is exposure therapy. People become less afraid of things that they've been exposed to. So while logic cannot change emotion, exposure often can.

Thu Dec 29 2011 20:54:21 #
slogsweep
Member

It's funny how exposure heals us, when exposure to these things in the first place messes us up so much. I'd never give the disease a second thought if I hadn't of seen it as a child.

I know it's totally irrational, but the fact that my chance is bigger than most, in that it's probably 1 in 50-100,000 instead of 1 in 200,000 scares me.

Some good news is that the worry has by and large left me alone the last couple of days. Tonight I cooked a meal for my girlfriend and felt perfectly normal, better than I have done for ages.

Thanks for your help I really do appreciate it, and when the worry inevitably comes back I'll always have something to read to calm me down,

Slog

Thu Dec 29 2011 23:29:35 #
Tess
Member

Hi Mike
I understand what you are saying but I think where we differ is that I have seen too much of what I term "toilet licking therapy" which I feel degrades us as human beings and can be damaging if sufferers are too ill to cope with the anxiety it causes. Not only that, exposure to fears will only work if you are exposing yourself to the thing which you actually fear and this may be an unknown quantity. I spent years back in the 70's exposing myself to urine, faeces and clay in the name of therapy but it made no difference whatsoever to my contamination fears.
Some years ago I knew a lady who had a phobia about birds, it was so bad it affected her whole life, she couldn't have holidays and was terrified of going into the garden or to the shops. She decided to pay for private therapy and one day she knocked at our door with her therapist and asked if they could come and sit in our garden because we had an aviary and free ranging poultry and doves. The therapist started her very slowly, she had already spent many sessions just looking at a feather until she had eventually managed to hold one in her hand and the therapist had deemed her ready to be introduced to live birds. They must have spent a whole summer just sitting watching the birds in our aviary where she knew they could not get out and touch her. Her entire therapy must have taken about 18 months and by the time it had finished she could go into her garden, book a holiday and even wear a feather hat. She was still very uncomfortable with free flying birds but had overcome her phobia to the extent that it no longer dictated her life. I think it is very appropriate and acceptable to treat OCD in a similar way - but there are differences. Firstly one has to ensure that the exposure is targeted towards the feared problem and not just to the visible symptom and secondly OCD will latch onto something else if that is not tackled at the same time. What troubles me is the attitude that you must NEVER give in to the fear. The brain takes time to change and as it starts to change the anxiety will start to lessen, I see no reason other than pushing patients through the system as quicky as possible for making the treatment process so cruel.

Fri Dec 30 2011 11:44:10 #
Mike
Member

Slog,

I know exactly what you mean. When I had HIV OCD, I compulsively kept checking the statistics over and over again, and determined that my chances of having HIV were extremely low, meaning 1 in 1,000, 10,000, 100,000, etc., or even impossible (based on the activity I engaged in)! I felt that if I kept checking the statistics and proved to myself that they were really low, it would relieve me of all my anxiety. Of course, this didn't work, because the real problem was that I was unable to live with even the slightest possibility that I had contracted HIV, which automatically sets us up for anxiety, because it is not possible to prove 100% that something will never, ever happen. So once I started doing ERP therapy I stopped doing these checking compulsions, and stopped trying to reassure myself. I even went to the length of repeating to myself "yes, I might have HIV", "yes, I might have HIV". And by the time I had done that for a few days, guess what? I wasn't worrying about it anymore!

Sat Dec 31 2011 20:31:04 #