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Intrusive Sexual Thoughts and False Memories

(217 posts) (45 voices)
  • Started 1 year ago by
  • Latest reply from BT
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  1. yes thoughts like this have haunted me all my life. I have suffered contamination ocd, sexual and religious. I never knew I had ocd and used various methods to numb out my fear and obsessions.
    this has acctualy become a problem, because I saw a picture of someone and all the fears and evil images entered my mind, i was horrified and tryed to let it run its corse rather than fight it as i have allways done, my mind just got worse and scared me even more. I tryed to distract myself to make it go away and this was a huge mistake because this made me feel discusted and horrified and more evil and bad and sick.

    Various distractions allways worked, but how can this work if my ocd has turned from fear of being unforgivable for thinking bad of god in a church, to fear of my thoughts around children. am I evil for what I did, I am very worried and need advice.

    (Some sentences have been edited in order to prevent undue distress to the member.
    Nimrod, Keymaster)

    Fri Jul 23 2010 17:44:28 #
  2. Hi fearisbeatable,

    Welcome to the forum

    Sat Jul 24 2010 12:50:06 #
  3. Hi

    I used to have these intrusive thoughts as well. They produced fear, doubt and anxiety in me. They were mt first thought in the morning and stayed with me all day. It started about 18 months ago but, thanks largely to these forums and other online resources, I have learned how to control my response to them by letting the thoughts in and giving them their space. As a result, I am much happier than I was a year ago.

    However, I still have the thoughts. They're still with me but I've stopped responding. Can anyone who knows more about this offer any information? Is this a stage of getting better? Do other people have the obsessional thought but no anxiety? Every search for information seems to say you cannot have OCD without anxiety. Does anyone know any different? Can anyone point me towards some reading that can offer guidance?

    Thanks

    C

    Sun Jul 25 2010 15:02:06 #
  4. Hi C,
    I quite often get obsessional thoughts, that I may or may not act on with no anxiety, I'm not sure why though.
    Jo

    Sun Jul 25 2010 19:07:51 #
  5. Jo do you mean act on or act out? to act on means you use a coping device like alcahol, shaking, exersise, compulsive reading, eating and so on, however to act out means that you acctualy do the intrusive thoughts.

    (Part of this post has been edited out in order to prevent undue distress to the member.
    Nimrod, Keymaster)

    Mon Jul 26 2010 10:01:16 #
  6. curbunkle, you are clearly having anxiety or you would not be asking about it, our ocd can make us think we are unworried even when we are overtaken my terror

    Mon Jul 26 2010 10:05:04 #
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    I did intend to write here today, but once again I am behind and don’t have the time.

    Welcome to our new members. I will write soon.

    Best wishes,
    Tricia

    Mon Jul 26 2010 14:46:58 #
  8. Fear,
    I mean to act on, like sometimes I neutralise the thoughts temporarily by following complusions sometimes I can control them with thoughts/blocking them, but I don't always get anxious with them. I just follow them the same as other normal routine behaviours and thoughts. Although I don't have pure O, my stuff is checking/ contamination OCD.

    Mon Jul 26 2010 22:56:41 #
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    Fear

    Like Jo, I also have contamination and checking OCD. I find that the level of anxiety I experience with my thoughts varies from day to day. Also, I have to admit that sometimes I actually ascribe a thought to my anxiety. So if I feel anxious I immediately tell myself that I must have been having a thought and then find myself searching for a reason for feeling anxious. Other times, when I am not feeling anxious at all, I find myself asking if I have anything to be anxious about.

    What I do know is two things. First,we all got these thoughts from time to time whether or not we have OCD. Second, those who do not have OCD can shrug them off, whereas we OCDers can't. My aim is for my OCD voice to be so quiet that I will be able to ignore it, whether or not I am anxious.

    Anne

    Tue Jul 27 2010 8:14:19 #
  10. Hi Lauren and everyone else

    Thank you for your message am sorry to hear that you are all suffering like me.

    I hate it all this so much, it no only feels me with dread but also with so much self loathing because i feel so guilty and disgusted by my thoughts and the horrid body sensations.

    I hope we'll all be able to come out of this on the other side and live fulfilled lives.

    The truth is, before my any of this started, I despised the kind of people I fear I am becoming, so it actually makes no sense that I could be one myself. On good rational day, i remember that and it gives me so relief, I just wish it would last.

    The other day my therapist tried to make me see things rationally. She pointed out that, if I was to think about it all rationally, I would realise that I will never be the type of people I fear because I don’t ‘WANT’ to act out my thoughts. She went on to explain that, this was different to the awful people who commit such crimes because they WANT to do the things that disgust me. Apparently I couldn’t be more different.

    She said it was all really simple – If I don’t want to act out, I never will act out.

    I kind of understand what she’s saying, and it makes sense. Although when my mind is emotionally confused I can’t work out what I feel, I know I have no desire for them for such dirty perverse behavior. I just get scared because the body sensations make me feel like I the thoughts.

    Wishing you all a good day.

    x

    Wed Jul 28 2010 11:46:55 #
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    Dear Ibelieve, I do hope you can believe your therapist. Even those paedophiles who feel some guilt over their thoughts, are not disgusted. They may accept that their sexual preference is abhorrent to the rest of society, but the desire (without any disgust) remains. It seems that more often than not OCD will latch on to what distresses or disgusts us the most and therefore your therapist is right, it actually means you will never put these thoughts into action..

    I don’t want to misquote David Veale, I don’t have a copy of his book to hand, but in it he states that a person looking for a babysitter or nanny could not choose anyone safer than someone who suffers intrusive thoughts (sexual or harm). This is because people with these thoughts never carry out the vile acts. They are tormented because they are disgusted. It’s what makes these kinds of intrusive thoughts so torturous.

    As for the sensations which distress you so much, have you read that article by Steven Phillipson? This is also very common with OCD symptoms of a sexual nature.

    Tricia x

    Wed Jul 28 2010 13:22:12 #
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    P.S. I know this is insignificant, by comparison, but this afternoon I am more anxious than usual. I passed something I considered to be contaminated. I felt I had brushed against it, even though I was over a two feet away. The more I stressed over it and tried to reassure myself, the more I felt the ‘dirt’ on my arm. The brain is incredible in its ability to create a response, when the mind is focused on a certain area of the body. This is very similar to your sensations, you are so afraid of any reaction that your brain is focused on this area of your body.

    Dr Phillipson explains it far better than I can!

    Wed Jul 28 2010 13:30:50 #
  13. I am a chaotic mind, I don't know that I am the worst one with OCD here, But I feel that mines is harder to deal with than all of yours. The reason is because of my own childhood traumas that are the cause of my distress.

    You see when I was very young, I was accused of something terible and someone reacted on 4 year old me by calling me an evil sick person. yet I only wanted to help.

    Sadly this led to her hating me, and a family fudge between her and my Ill mother (has M.E) and she would be forever bullying me and my mom and blaming me for things i never done (Eg. Her son knelt on a little paint that has spilled around my back, when he was 8 years old, his mother ran over screaming that I had tied him up and covered him head to toe in paint, while holding the trousers that showed only a tiny speck of paint)

    As my mother was ill she could not defend me, and so it wasn't long before anyone who did anything would blame me to get themselves out of trouble, and even if I had been in all day and my mother knew it she would tell the parents "Its ok I will deal with him" to avoid a confrontation, which gave the parents the idea i was an evil kid, and the kids a fall guy.

    Even when I tired to help "one kid fell and started crying, I ran out to help him, his mom ran to my door screaming that I had pushed him" another time "A kid fell of his bike, I ran to see if he was ok, his sister said to him (tell mom he pushed you, I want to see him get screamed at again) and laughed, he told his mom, his mom not only went insane on me, but tired to kill my pet hamster that I had in the garden in a hamster ball by trying to throw it down the sewer drain".

    In both these occasions my mom knew I had done no wrong, but she never defended me. this led to my isolation, and the hate around me spread into my school, nobody believed me, I remember my teacher saying I was in the park playing and skipping school, when infact I had only put my foot on the slide step to tie my shoe, and was late because my mom needed me to help her into the bathroom and out again.

    I got so scared that I isolated myself, going out as little as possible, eventually I discovered a distraction to make the fear go away. however at the time I found this I myself was only 11 years old, and I had no idea what a pedo was, so I looked for people my own age, not knowing what this was.

    My father went online and the pictures I had looked at popped up, he went insane on me, calling me something dreadful, saying he will be put in jail because of me, that I was sick, evil, that I will be put in jail because of it. yet I had no idea at the time what it was, and I was traumatized by his reaction.

    I got so afraid that I would go to jail that I went online and read stories to see what a pedo was. I found the asstr, and it has stories, and the first thing I read was that the stories were legal, so I was able to gain the information I needed knowing I may find some answer to make the fear go away. I read many stories, and I was so horrified by it that I thought even my own childhood experiments made me one, I was only 11 years old at the time.

    I realized that I wasn't going to get the answer I was seeking, which was a reason why these people were the way they were, and because I thought myself one, a way to stop it. So I replaced the porn with anime, that was it was less real, however I started to worry that even anime made there pictures look iffy.

    After a while of anime, I started doing other things, dressing up in womans clothing, and pictured myself the woman, I even did some experiments, but one day I took some photos of myself, forgot and my father found them, it happened again, I was called sick, evil, and told he was about to give the camera to a friend and he would have been jailed because of what I did, if he had not looked first. I was mortified, My father was a homophobe, and he saw these pictures of me.

    I decided to do my experiments outside in the hills, where that could not happen. I filled a bag up with womans clothing and went up the hill, I did my experiments there, far from my father. However one day there was a fire in the hills, they found the bag, it was the bag we went to Australia with and it had our postcode on it, and inside the side unbeknownst to me was a babys sock.

    So they thought a child had been murdered, and the next thing I know the police, Cid, and the MID are at my door, wanting to talk to my father, I saw the bag and was terefied, and they found out that I was up the hills doing gay experimentation, the just laughed, were glad it was not a murder, and left.

    Now i was even more traumatized, at this point I was 14 years old, and I was afraid of everything, I hated myself, I just wanted to lock myself away in a world of distraction so I never had to think. if things got to hard I would run for the distraction.

    Then I realized that when I was experimenting, I used a crucifix, I went cold, I could not forgive myself, for years I tormented myself with the idea I was going to hell for all that bad I had done, Jesus would never forgive me. my mother and father broke up, my grandfather died, I was getting bullyed all the time, my gran scared the life out of me telling me God was an evil punnisher, my mother ended up in hospital almost dieing with lack of food.

    I made walls and hid in them. one day I spoke with someone online, which got me into roleplay, it was a grate way to get away, but it was all going to go sour, so I turned from that and tired another chat, this went on and I got into some strange cyber like bdsm. after a time though I started to hate it, I tired to stop and I was unable too because when something scared me that was the only way to quiet my OCD down.

    we can all have thoughts that horrify us, but we can talk to each other about it, I used to think I was really evil because I was having intrusive thoughts sexual thoughts, I had no idea why, it scared the life out of me. when I seeked help and told other people they told me I was a sex addict, even though I never did or would do any of my thoughts, but I believed them, I called myself an addict, found help and only got worse, because I was not an addict, My ocd was used against me when I was told my thoughts were proof I was just like those who had done such things, and that was how they started. this caused me grate fear and distress. Then I was told grate fear and distress was another sign that I was one of them.

    there I was in fear and panic, my world crumbling around me, all my hope falling away, I truly believed I was one of them, and then I found out other people with OCD suffer these thoughts, and I realized addicts use our OCD as there excuse, and as long as they can convince us we have what they have, they can continue to use our condition to there benefit, why should I be surprised that such people pray on the vulnerable and weak minded? its who they are after all.

    So I gave up my only way of numbing out my ocd, and when I thought my fiancee was pregnant, my fear moved to the fear of the child, suddenly I couldn't look at any child without freaking out, and all the storys that I read in my past returned to haunt me. I did exactly what I should not have done because as Phillipson said not to (((ER." The tremendous effort one puts into escaping the unwanted thoughts or preventing their recurrence (e.g. hiding knives), in effect, reinforces its importance to the nonconscious brain and, thereby, feeds the vicious cycle.))) Because I saw a kid, I freaked out, I let my mind wander to face it, my thoughts got worse, I was horrified at my bodys sensations, I had to get away, I had given up some distractions, what could I do, I wanted to run. I went to the toilet to use my old relief but as I started someone knocked on my door, my mind filled with horror, I believed this proved all my fears, I saw those pictures in my mind, and was so evil I tired to masturbate, however I was rather trying to masturbate to get rid of the images in my mind, but obviously this backfired big time.

    I know I am disgusted, but sometimes I don't know how disgusted, I wish we had scales to measure our disgust so we can know that we are not one of them.

    I did not want to post up my life story here, but I feel if I don't, I will always let my past win, do I disgust any of you as much as I disgust myself, because I would rather cut off my penis that ever do such vile things, but I have read storys, and they are what are tearing me apart.

    (Some sentences have been edited in order to prevent undue distress to the member.
    Nimrod, Keymaster)

    Thu Jul 29 2010 10:57:28 #
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    Dear Fearisbeatable (I wish you’d give me some tips on how to live up to your name!). Firstly, I have to comment on your initial paragraph. None of us truly knows the extent of another’s suffering due to their OCD, or the troubles they have experienced in childhood and beyond. One dear friend of mine, who writes on this forum and has paedophilia fears, was repeatedly raped at knifepoint by her step-father. Many people have suffered terrible bullying throughout their early years etc. This is likely to have had an impact on their OCD. Many here have very complex issues which make their OCD hard to treat.

    Please don’t think I am not sympathetic towards you, because you have endured an awful time and I was deeply moved by your message. I’m just saying none of us should assume we are harder to treat than another, for whatever reason.

    I have been following your messages, and you seem very knowledgeable about OCD. What help are you receiving at the moment (or in the past)? I sent you a brief PM, but have been meaning to write to you here, I was just unsure how to word my reply, because some of the things you said seemed a little ambiguous. You have now explained your situation and I do understand. Have you confided in your fiancée? You know the best way to treat this obsession. It may not work for you, but it’s likely it will. By the way, I do wonder if masturbation is the best kind of distraction.

    What are the stories that are tearing you apart? Although many OCD experts just treat the here and now, it’s obvious that you do need to discuss your past and receive help in dealing with it. I believe Lee Baer does stress this in his book. Have you attempted this at all?

    Please don’t think I am upset with you, because of my initial remarks. I am very pleased you have joined us and I hope you will make friends who can support you with this terrible condition.

    Tricia x

    Thu Jul 29 2010 12:44:21 #
  15. Hi Ibelieve

    I to have exactly the same for of ocd and it horrible......
    i read thatonce you were able to label it as OCD and i went away. I am trying this again as it started to work for me, but i gave in but your post has inspired me again.
    shift the blame to ocd, we dont want these thoughts, not our fault something in the brain is not passing on messages. (o my ocd now doubting me) it is ocd xx

    Thu Jul 29 2010 12:57:17 #
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    Stu and everyone, re-labelling these thoughts as OCD is good, but please don’t anyone assume they don’t have OCD if the technique fails to help them! If it were that easy we would all be fine. The crafty ****** is smart and doesn’t necessarily let go that easily!

    By the way, I should point out that not all experts agree with re-labelling, at least not when an intrusive thought actually strikes. That’s regarded as reassurance and believed to reinforce the fear. It’s true other experts disagree, so it’s far from clear-cut!

    Tricia x

    Thu Jul 29 2010 13:06:41 #
  17. hi Tricia
    yer your right....... but i am going to try to relabel it all today and see how i get on.

    I dont want to give out wrong information here so thanks

    but i am going to try this today and see how goes...

    Thu Jul 29 2010 13:15:56 #
  18. It is so reassuring to read your post. I too have these thoughts and they are driving me mad. Wen I think I have reassured myself they come back.it seems like a never ending cycle.

    Thu Jul 29 2010 16:03:02 #
  19. im just keep telling myself today it "ocd not me" (although not guarantee solution) just experimenting with it at mo. What it does do is stop me from reacting to triggers, if i get one say a knock on the arm etc i say "tht ocd" at least it giving me the time to clean me kitchen... i haven't got cleaning issues just needs doing

    Thu Jul 29 2010 16:42:22 #
  20. The old stories I read when I was young are what was haunting me. I am not offended by what you say. I think everyone thinks there OCD is worse than everyones. I beleave mine was caused by three years of acute carbon monoxide poisening.

    I was reading phillipsons stuff, I found out that I have ROCD the responcability one. I am afraid of causing anyone harm. so to read that was a grate help. I do appologise for upsetting you, but all I was meaning was that I found my current OCD harder to deal with, but I never said I was the worst one with ocd here, how I mean this is because I cant use my destraction method with my current OCD obsession, but exageration is also a way of coping lol.

    plus I cant even trust my past. I change it, I dont know what has and has not happened, I get false memories alot, again caused by the acute carbon monoxide poisening.

    Thu Jul 29 2010 17:17:40 #
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    Dear Fearisbeatable, I wasn’t upset at all, I’m sorry if it came across that way. I merely wanted to point out that many people have past issues that affect their OCD. No, you didn’t say your condition is worse, you pointed out that your past made it harder for you to be treated than all the others here.

    How much help have you actually received?

    Was the carbon monoxide poisoning due to a faulty gas appliance?

    Best wishes, Tricia.

    Fri Jul 30 2010 12:32:25 #
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    Dear Stu and Hb, Have either of you tried writing down a worst case scenario? Many experts suggest doing this and even recording your words onto a tape. Many people do become desensitized to their intrusive thoughts in this way.

    Although the re-labelling technique (saying it’s not you but your OCD) is suggested by Jeffrey Schwartz, others believe this can reinforce the OCD and only suggest re-labelling when you are not having an intrusive thought.

    Although reassurance is said to make matters worse, I find it incredibly hard not to give reassurance with this particular symptom. We have to try different approaches and see what works best for us. Refocusing is also recommended by Prof. Schwartz, but not by some other experts. When I suffered intrusive thoughts, refocusing (shifting your attention to something else, preferably something pleasant) was the only way I experienced any relief. Focusing on the thoughts, writing them down and concentrating on the worst case scenario, did not help me at all.

    Tricia x

    Fri Jul 30 2010 12:46:19 #
  23. Hi everybody,

    I hope all of you are feeling okay today. I've been reading some of the newer comments in this thread. I have, in the past, been very fortunate to have been able to confide with my boyfriend with my fears. Unfortunately they have put a lot of stress on the relationship so I am finding this forum a very valuable source of help for me. I have ordered the book 'the imp of the mind' by lee baer, I hope it may help me, if I can understand it! Hope you are all having an okay day today x

    Fri Jul 30 2010 15:01:32 #
  24. Thanks tricia. That sounds great. Am gna give them a go. I'm trying to let my self have the intrusive thoughts wen in a uncomfortable situation as I have found trying to think of something positive has stopped me trying to fight this pain in the arse lol. It helps me to re-emphasis the fact that "thoughts are just thoughts" although it's very hard work. you think that's a good idea?

    Fri Jul 30 2010 15:52:56 #
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    Dear Lauren, I’m so sorry that your OCD has put a strain on your relationship with your boyfriend. Perhaps if he reads ’Imp of the Mind’ he will also be helped. I believe Lee Baer’s book is the best for this symptom. I was reading it again, last night. He speaks about thought suppression, something I attempted continually (but failed miserably with) when I suffered intrusive thoughts. I would imagine it’s the most natural reaction when a disgusting/distressing thought enters our minds, to try to force it away. However, Lee Baer was saying that when a patient was asked to really concentrate on something, his mind drifted. When told to do the opposite (with the same thought) he struggled to shift his attention elsewhere, the thought he was trying to avoid continually returned. Therapists disagree on so much, but I think we can safely say they all agree thought suppression makes the thoughts worse.
    .
    I do think it's a good idea, Hb, just say they are only thoughts. It’s perhaps wrong of me (in some therapists’ eyes!) but I talk to my OCD when it throws a particularly bad thought at me. I tell it that it’s being more disgusting than usual, but I will ignore it. (I have received a few strange looks in Sainsbury’s when this has happened!). One psychologist did approve this approach, but warned me not to personify the OCD, it’s just a biological condition after all.

    Have you read ‘Imp of the Mind’, Hb?

    Please do let us know how you get on.

    Tricia x

    Sat Jul 31 2010 13:46:15 #
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    P.S. I have spoken of my intrusive thoughts that plagued me in the past and have stated that I am over them, but I also occasionally mention current intrusive thoughts. This is probably confusing! Just to clarify, for about seven years I had intrusive thoughts that were virtually constant, they even appeared in my dreams. For me, it remains the worst kind of OCD symptom. I was doing all the wrong things, because I didn’t know how to deal with them. They eventually burnt themselves out and have never returned. However, I do occasionally have intrusive thoughts of a different nature. These are the ones I try to make light of and ‘talk’ to my OCD about. I would not have reached this point without the help of a dear friend from this forum.

    Sat Jul 31 2010 13:55:28 #
  27. Hi Tricia

    Thank you so much for all your advice and guidance, you really have been super!

    I have read, the Dr Phillipson post on and am aware of what he says about grional response, that post was actually one of the reasons I recovered from OCD the last time because I realised the sensations were being caused by pure fear and anxiety.

    However, the doubt that I do have OCD is what's stalling my recovery now, like I mentioned before, I seem to know everything I need to know about the condition, yet, I can't apply the methods. Part of the reason for this is, because my OCD returned after 7 years when I never imagined it would or that it could, I really had thought I’d put it to bed for good. When it came back, my mind quickly started to look for other answers, and it latched on to the fact that, I must be an evil and flawed person deep down.

    But, while I know I probably have a long way to go, something you said in your last point to me made some sense Tricia.

    “The more I stressed over it and tried to reassure myself, the more I felt the ‘dirt’ on my arm. The brain is incredible in its ability to create a response, when the mind is focused on a certain area of the body. This is very similar to your sensations, you are so afraid of any reaction that your brain is focused on this area of your body.”[b][i]

    The comparison you make above about how your contamination makes you feel dirty is in many ways the same as my sexual body sensations. I have such fear that when I see the things that trigger it, my body responds with that vile sensations, so I guess if your mind can make you feel dirty, it can make me feel like am aroused too. – Does that make sense?

    As you say also, I understand that concentrating on a particular body part can make feelings appear by simply focusing on that part – in fact , I know that 80 per cent of the time, I get the sensations because I am looking for them by checking and scanning my body. In fact my therapist said to me during my last sensation, if you look for the feeling, you will always find it!

    I think identifying a similarity between your type of OCD and my type has helped me believe I truly have OCD.

    Thank you for pointing it out, Tricia! I hope it helps me conquer this! Currently I’m continuing to relabel my thoughts and sensations as OCD and fingers crossed I start to see results.

    Stus – how’s your relabeling going, it can benefit but I think in order for it to work, you have to truly believe that you have OCD.

    Thanks again Tricia, I think am now beginning to see that, my body sensation is not a real thing; it’s actually as fake as the imagined dirt you feels on her arm.

    Thank you all for all your help. Am sorry I don’t have time to reply and post regularly.

    Wishing you all a good day!

    I truly believe it’s beatable because I beat it once already, so best of luck to you all with your individual battles.

    x

    Mon Aug 2 2010 13:39:30 #
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    Dear Ibelieve, I can’t tell you how relieved I am to read your message! I have been so worried that my comparison would offend people (believing a feeling of a little dirt rather trivial compared with the sensations we are mostly speaking about here).

    It makes perfect sense, that if my mind causes sensations of dirt, yours creates sensations of arousal. There really is no difference. Neither is true. The brain can lie!

    Last night, I was particularly stressed and felt I had touched something in my home that I consider to be very contaminated. I was nowhere near it, but my brain just wouldn’t let it go. The sensation of being dirty grew and grew and the feeling on my left arm was still there this morning. Had it not been for the fact that my daughter had been with me and reassured me that I was several feet away from the ‘contaminated‘ object, I think I would now be convinced I must have touched it and quite forcibly, given the strength of the feeling!. It’s amazing how our brains can do this! Just think what positive, challenging things our brains must be capable of, when they can do all this ‘amazingly’ negative stuff!

    I don’t believe anyone with paedophilia fears has not commented on groinal responses. However, I can fully appreciate that most can accept this is a part of OCD, caused by fear and looking for a response etc. but, each person will usually then question ‘Is it actually OCD I have?’ The level of distress is the obvious clue here. Not wanting to personify it, but OCD does behave like a cunning adversary, always willing to throw a new doubt our way. It’s clever, because it will even try to make us doubt its existence!

    The fact that our symptoms can vanish and then make an appearance at a later date is also common with OCD. In many cases it’s impossible to find a reason why they went or why they returned. Perhaps there was a shift in the brain’s chemistry? Perhaps we were under less or more stress and didn’t even realize it? Change, even good change, does seem to cause symptoms to worsen in may of us.

    Tricia x

    Mon Aug 2 2010 14:24:41 #
  29. Hi!! Thanks for your reply. No I have not. I am going to have a look for it though. Thank you

    Tue Aug 3 2010 11:12:47 #
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    Hb, I really think the book will help you, especially with the rough time you are experiencing at the moment.

    Tricia x

    Fri Aug 6 2010 12:16:09 #

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