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Intrusive Sexual Thoughts and False Memories

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  • Started 4 months ago by Tricia
  • Latest reply from Tricia
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  1. We have been speaking of false memories on a couple of threads now, including one of Ocdmomma’s (which I am now having problems writing on). I wrote there that a person without OCD knows they haven’t molested someone, because they have no recollection of doing so. For many of us with OCD, we worry about what vile act we might have committed, simply because we can’t recall NOT carrying one out. This can very easily lead to our fear-driven, overactive imaginations creating the most vivid images in our minds.

    A dear friend, who fears she will sexually abuse her children, read Fred Penzel’s article on the obsession
    ( http://westsuffolkpsych.homestead.com/articles.html ). He states it’s OCD if you feel disgusted by the thoughts and have never acted on them. That reassures most of us for a short time, but then the OCD will make a counterattack and question whether we are really revolted. Do we experience enough guilt, disgust etc. Heaven forbid, do we actually experience pleasure. Have we acted on them in the past but blanked the events out. Then there are the false memories. All these thoughts go through our minds.

    Lee Baer, in his book ‘The Imp Of The Mind’, writes about a man who fears he will sexually abuse young children. He is travelling in his car with his seven-year-old daughter and her friend. His obsession kicks in. He can’t recall NOT having raped his daughter’s friend and he then panics. His distress leads to his visualizing graphic images of having done so. His thoughts then turn towards his daughter. The whole time he is revolted and sickened to his stomach. It’s testament to the strength of OCD, that even at such times of utter revolution, we are still capable of wondering if we are actually feeling pleasure! I have spoken to James about his fears of being gay. Due to our fear, physical responses can actually occur in parts of our bodies that add to our disgust and reinforce our obsession. My contamination fears can make me feel dirt on a part of my body. The sensations are very real. With sexual fears we can believe we are aroused. Steven Phillipson wrote an excellent article on this called ‘I think it Moved’ http://www.ocdonline.com/articlesphillipson.php

    Lee Baer writes that more than a quarter of us (with OCD) suffer intrusive thoughts of a sexual nature. How many of these involve children seems unclear. My guess is the figure is quite high, much more than a quarter. I know several people who have confided in me, but have told no-one else. If psychologists are not being made aware of our symptoms they will not realize how common this obsession is. OCD was still believed to be rare in the 70s, because we were so secretive about it. The nature of this symptom causes deeper shame than admitting to contamination fears (for example) and it’s hardly surprising that many are keeping this to themselves and suffering in silence. I dread to think how many have been driven to suicide, because they are unaware they have OCD. Even when a person is aware, it’s one of the worst forms of hell imaginable.

    My guess is also that intrusive thoughts of a sexual nature involving consenting adults who are not related to us, is less common than ones involving children or close relatives. I say this because OCD targets areas that are most inappropriate and cause most revolution.

    Most of my very close friends with OCD have mentioned intrusive thoughts of a sexual nature involving their parents, siblings or children (at some time in their lives). Some have retracted their ‘testimonies’ years later, because they regretted sharing the obsession with me. Mercifully, many find this obsessions burns itself out and they want the whole period of torture buried and they regret ever speaking about it. However, I think people need to speak about their torment, even if anonymously on a forum such as this.

    Older members may recall my thread about a play I was writing based on a man suffering paedophilia OCD. Never has any topic I have written aroused such a passionate and extreme response. The play is not finished, because I am still in two minds whether to change the protagonist’s obsession to one that might shock and distress people less. It appears that even people suffering this torment have opposing views on whether such a subject should be aired. One young man, who suffers paedophilia fears, wrote a long PM. He is in favour of such a dramatization, but I vividly recall his opening sentence. ‘Unfortunately, you may harm as many people as you will help’.

    Wed May 5 2010 13:03:14 #
  2. revulsion, not revolution!

    Wed May 5 2010 13:14:00 #
  3. I am so encouraged to hear you talk about how many people are suffering from these obsessions. I regret to say that I am one of them. I am extremely shy about it and aside from this forum, I have not admitted to my obsessions. It is so good to hear that I am not alone in having these thoughts!

    Wed May 5 2010 15:40:01 #
  4. Avatar Image


    Unregistered

    me too. That reminds me, I forgot to post on OCD mommas thread

    Giles

    Wed May 5 2010 16:24:12 #
  5. I was going to apologize for this thread, because I have offended a few people (again). However, I do not regret writing it, though I am sorry that even some with this obsession would prefer it swept under the carpet.

    It is only by speaking out that we can really help each other and help those poor people who don’t even realize they have OCD.

    I am saddened that some with OCD are so judgemental. My attitude has always been ‘there but for the grace of God …’. We don’t choose our symptoms, they choose us. Let’s all try to have empathy with each other. I have experienced these obsessions briefly. I believe the extreme nature of my contamination fears has pushed them to a lower ‘ranking‘. Maybe that’s why I continue as I am, because, in the past, intrusive thoughts (of a slightly different nature) put me through hell. At the moment I would say I have graduated to purgatory.

    TL, I am glad you have been encouraged. I honestly believe most people with OCD have suffered these kinds of intrusive thoughts at some point in their lives. Understandably, most people are shy about discussing their thoughts. It’s why a true picture of the extent of this symptom may never be revealed. Only one person who has confided in me has told their psychologist. I never told my psychiatrist or psychologist about my intrusive thoughts, I was too embarrassed at the time. I could tell them about my checking and contamination fears, but the thoughts remained secret. Paradoxically, I was too ashamed to confide in either of my doctors but am now broadcasting it to the world in the form of a book. (No, I am not arrogant enough to believe millions will actually read it, but potentially, if it’s published, anyone could!) I suppose I have reached a point in my life where I no longer care how people view me.

    Giles, we don’t see you here enough these days!

    Hang in there, dear Jane and everyone who is enduring this hell. The obsession often burns itself out.

    Tricia x

    Thu May 6 2010 12:46:57 #
  6. I’ve just realized that something I wrote was ambiguous. I was not implying that my contamination fears are somehow stronger or worse than the intrusive thoughts we are discussing. On the contrary. What I am trying to say is that, for me, intrusive thoughts are an even greater hell. I believe I am fortunate in that my mind ‘chooses’ to focus on the contamination. The intrusive thoughts, in the main, are suppressed by my highest obsession. I don’t know why this is occurring, but I am grateful for it. Now I fear I may have offended my fellow ‘contaminationers’!

    Thu May 6 2010 13:00:47 #
  7. Hi Tricia,

    I am saddened that some with OCD are so judgemental. My attitude has always been ‘there but for the grace of God …’. We don’t choose our symptoms, they choose us. Let’s all try to have empathy with each other.

    I agree with you, if we’re not tolerant of each other's OCD and try to empathise with each other, then how can we expect people without OCD to understand?

    We might find someone’s particular obsession or compulsion difficult to deal with, but we need to remember that they might find our's equally as difficult. But it doesn’t matter what the obsession or compulsion is it’s OCD and has a common thread.

    We need to talk about all aspects of our OCD. It’s only by being open that the professionals will come to understand just how complex the condition is. Until they understand the complexities and the wide range of symptoms we can't hope for better treatments to be found.

    We need to speak out and not only let them know about all aspects of our OCD but to let them know what works for us and why. Just as important what doesn't work and the reasons why. The condition is so wide ranging that the one treatment fits all just doesn't work.

    Remember that it is by keeping certain aspects of OCD suppressed that we perpetuate the myth that OCD is something to be ashamed of. It’s not something to be ashamed of. Further more we should never be ashamed of our OCD.

    Trudy

    Thu May 6 2010 13:53:36 #
  8. Dear Tricia
    I for one really appreciate the posts you have made. They ahve helped me immensley and im sure anyone else suffering the same will agree.
    Thanks again Jane x

    Thu May 6 2010 15:34:22 #
  9. I definitely agree with everyone. I joined this forum to find out what other people with OCD are doing to cope and to find out if there were others with similar symptoms. If we are not open about their symptoms, we all lose because we all think we are alone.

    Fri May 7 2010 0:01:07 #
  10. I have been reading more of Lee Baer’s book, something he said made me realize how essential it is for us to be open about these obsessions. He wrote that virtually all his patients with violent or sexual obsessions have contemplated suicide and some have attempted it. I feel that being isolated and having no-one to confide in will make suicide more likely.

    Over the years, I have asked a few close friends, who don’t have OCD, whether they ever have intrusive thoughts of this kind, even if only fleetingly. Because no-one without OCD has admitted to doing so (to me) I still believed that most people probably don’t.

    However, the experts, including Lee Baer, tell us this is not the case, they assure us such thoughts are common amongst people who do not have OCD. Lee Baer prints a list of many intrusive thoughts that ‘normal’ people experience. Because so many with OCD are unwilling to talk about their intrusive thoughts, I am now wondering if that’s why none of my friends without OCD will admit to having them. This seems very likely, given the research that has been carried out.

    I confided in a friend that I once feared I would push people in front of a train when it was pulling into a railway station. Although she didn’t say she had experienced similar, she didn’t react as if she were shocked, either. On the television recently, someone commented about having thoughts of pushing passengers in front of a train, and she made it sound quite common. My daughter assures me this is so. I have realized the difference between us and those without OCD. When such a thought has crossed my mind, I break out in a sweat and panic, believing I may be a homicidal maniac. When my daughter experiences the same, she briefly tells herself that was a bizarre thought and carries on her journey, wondering what we might be having for dinner!

    Lee Baer does stress, as all psychologists and psychiatrists stress, we must try not to block the thoughts, because that never works. We must try to let them pass through our minds. I feel we can be reassured that at any given time thousands (millions?!) of others are having these same thoughts (those with and without OCD). Because of our sensitive natures and consciences we panic in a way that those without OCD do not. If we can learn not to react to a thought it will lose its power and fade away.

    Fri May 7 2010 14:15:38 #
  11. There's something I've just read in Lee Baer’s book, which I overlooked the first time. He speaks about those who suffer intense images along with their intrusive thoughts (when I suffered intrusive thoughts I had vivid images accompanying them. I thought everyone did, but apparently not).

    He mentions how adding a dopamine antagonist to an SSRI can be very helpful. I was wondering, when I read this particular paragraph, how more people might be prepared to try these medications if they were called by this name (as opposed to 'antipsychotics').

    Tue May 11 2010 13:20:02 #
  12. Just a question.

    Everyone knows, or may know about "Groinal responses" related to OCD and sexual obsessions I assume

    but what gets me is that I get these responses when I'm not even thinking of it directly. It's odd. I never ever before i got this problem had these responses when seeing the thing i have these gross thoguhts about, and it's never an Erection, it just feels as though it grows ever so slightly and becomes a bit more sensitive. Even if it's something indirectly related to the subject, like - if a man says he's a father. I'll get a groinal response in relation to the unwanted thoughts i have of kids >_< does that make sense? Or does this mean I'm some horrible paedo?

    Tue May 11 2010 17:25:40 #
  13. And Tricia. I'd just like to thank you for putting so much informaiton and like-mindedness up here.

    You're a wonderful woman. Haha. And it's helped. I just need this final If or if not answer

    Tue May 11 2010 17:27:46 #
  14. Avatar Image


    Unregistered

    Tricia. Thank you so much for putting so much information on this board:-) when i was 13 i had hocd which i came through im now 20 and after having my baby boy 5 weeks ago got pocd which is the most horrible thing ever i also constiplated suicide but just couln't bear leaving my son without a mother! I have been on sertraline 150mg for 4 weeks which has lifted my mood and anxiety a lot because i was really depressed still have my bad days. but now i worry cause im not having my anxiety and panick attacks that i must like these thoughts which is so not true! I just want this to go away i feel like im turning into such an evil person i would really appreaciate for some replys just to know that im not alone with this! THANKS
    I too have groinal responses that are driving me crazy!!

    Wed May 12 2010 8:10:41 #
  15. hi laura u r not alone i too have these intrusive thoughts and it doesnt help that lately my paranoia 2 is out of control am severely depressed over it at the min and its so dificult being a mum and trying 2 cope with these dreadful thoughts atleast we have this forum 2 talk on dnt know how id of coped without it all the best

    Wed May 12 2010 8:29:12 #
  16. Avatar Image


    Unregistered

    thanks for your reply trish its horrible cause being a mum this is the last thing you would ever want to think about! yeah im glad i found this forum its a god send! you are not alone
    good luck

    Wed May 12 2010 8:39:47 #
  17. Laura, You are not alone feeling that way when the anxiety reduces. The OCD will then question whether that’s because you are what it’s been telling you all along. I have felt the same with my intrusive thoughts in the past. I learned to shrug some of them off, but then believed I was cold and callous for being able to do so (those particular thoughts were about something happening to my mother). Can we actually win?! We can, we have to somehow get past both stages and the thoughts usually fade and give up.

    The feelings below are normal, everyone with this obsession experiences the same. The power of the mind is amazing, though that’s not quite the right word to use when it’s causing such devastation.

    Someone praising Lee Baer’s book on intrusive thoughts wrote that the subject is a ‘fascinating topic‘. Again, I can think of a better choice of word than ‘fascinating’. I doubt any sufferers are fascinated by their condition! And, if anyone without it is fascinated, they should try living with it!!

    Seandy, if you are like me, then your mind is never fully away from your intrusive thoughts, and it wouldn’t take much for your body to react as you’ve described. If a man says he is a father, it seems perfectly natural for you to react as you said. You hear the word ‘father‘ your OCD thinks ‘child‘, the link is there. My intrusive thoughts were slightly different, but it would baffle my husband how something that seemed to have no connection with my problem could form a link in my mind.

    One other thing, Seandy. You said you just need this answer. I wish, dear God I wish, it were that easy. But sadly, reassurance, for any kind of OCD is usually short-lived. It’s the nature of the condition for our minds to question even the strongest evidence. Relief can quickly evaporate when we again say ‘but what if…’

    I do feel a group has come together on this forum and at least each of you knows you are not alone. How ever did people cope with this symptom years ago, when it was never spoken of?

    Laura, You are NOT evil. None of you are!

    I hope you all find the relief I eventually did.

    Wed May 12 2010 14:36:30 #
  18. P.S. Something I should have added to the message from yesterday. Lee Baer talks about dopamine antagonists and says they are also called antipsychotics. He stresses this does NOT mean a person with OCD who is prescribed such medication is psychotic!

    Wed May 12 2010 14:41:45 #
  19. Wow. So many people with this part of OCD. I never imagined that so many people could be going through the same thing I am!

    Wed May 12 2010 14:49:59 #
  20. TL, Even more have written to me, but won't write on the forum. This is far more common than even the experts realize.

    Wed May 12 2010 14:53:39 #
  21. Well it is definitely encouraging to know that so many are the same as me. At the same time, I feel terrible that others have to go through this. It really is awful and some days I don't even want to get up because I'm so afraid I'll hurt a poor innocent person.

    Wed May 12 2010 15:00:27 #
  22. Avatar Image


    Unregistered

    thank you tricia i sent you a pm hope you dont mind.

    Wed May 12 2010 15:39:07 #
  23. Ah Tricia.

    You're amazing.

    yeah;I always thought this sort of OCD was non existant and therefore i was the thing I feared. But it seems to be quite a common one; Common in the sense of a rare thing I guess.

    although the reasurance will always be needed at least I have a reference to read back over to calm myself.

    I'm thinking of starting an OCD awareness society or such at my College just to put it out there for people suffering the same sort of thing. one in fifty adults are said to have OCD. And of those one in fifty at least half are said to experience Sexual obsessions. That's 1 in 100 people - There are 8000 people in my college. So you can see how far this could go - It's an awful thing to suffer.

    thanks Tricia. I really appreciate it.

    And TL - you're younger than me; Just. So i guess we both know what it's like to have this problem at this age.

    Peace

    Wed May 12 2010 23:48:06 #
  24. Yeah. It's tough being in school and going through this stuff. Fortunately, I've been having a few really good days in a row and I'm trying to ignore the thoughts but trying to ignore them just makes me develop more compulsions. It seems like we just can't win!

    Wed May 12 2010 23:55:50 #
  25. just try and create a distraction. Or think to yourself logically how you can not be the thing that you're scared of being. That's all it is at the end of the day - yourself causing a fear because it's something you do not want to be.

    Thu May 13 2010 8:26:08 #
  26. Seandy, That’s a very good idea to start an OCD awareness society. You are right with those figures. Makes you think, doesn’t it. Good luck with it.

    Laura, That’s fine! I’ll reply to your PM in a moment.

    I realize many of you are pleased this subject is being aired here, but how would you react to it being (very delicately) handled in something that might reach a wider audience, in the form of a dramatization? I am still facing the dilemma of whether or not to proceed. Maybe I should do what one psychiatrist suggested and change the symptom slightly.

    If anyone has a view on this, whether for or against, please let me know (by PM if you would prefer).

    Thu May 13 2010 13:08:50 #
  27. Hi Seandy,

    I too think the 'OCD awareness society' is a good idea. How about speaking to the OCD Action office to see if they could help with literature, posters etc? There seems to be a lot of students that are struggling alone to cope with their OCD, surely it can only help to know that you're not alone?

    Tricia,

    Why change the symptom? All forms of OCD need to be equally aired so that everyone realises the extent of the problem that is OCD. There is too much stereotyping OCD and trivialising it. It then makes it difficult for those that are really struggling, as people assume that it's just a matter of checking and cleaning. It's not it's a far wider ranging problem. Go for it, mind you it's easy for me to say as it's not my work. (OCD speaking again )

    Thu May 13 2010 13:44:34 #
  28. Trudy, It was because I received some very negative responses (positive, too, but I am more concerned about the negative). I suppose the psychiatrist’s opinion also plays on my mind, even though other professionals believe it would be acceptable to keep with the original symptom. I’ll try to find the e-mail from the psychiatrist who advised me to change it slightly, and then you will be able to see why he wrote that.

    I woke up this morning with the whole play going through my mind. I even visualized the characters’ faces and scenes. Some scenes that I had been struggling with previously were fitting into place. I do want to stick to my original idea, but still I am wavering! That could just be my OCD or it could be the distraught voice of a friend, ringing in my ears when I recall her reaction.

    I am prepared to lose friends over this, because I feel strongly about it, what I don’t want to do is hurt anyone. Some are terrified that we will all be labelled paedophiles, because the public will misunderstand, in the way a few ignorant people attack paediatricians.

    Tricia x

    Fri May 14 2010 14:08:04 #
  29. I’ve found four e-mails by professionals, commenting on the possibility of a play, but I haven’t time to go into them in any depth now. I’d forgotten how long some were.

    One expert shares my concerns. He said he felt such a dramatization could be a good thing, but he went on to add ‘A writer or producer might want to slip a bit of ambiguity in. That, I think, would be a disaster’.

    Obviously I won’t include ambiguity, but I can’t speak for a producer. How much say I (with the backing, hopefully, of OCD Action) would have over the production, I don’t know. That would possibly be a deciding factor.

    By the way, there is an idiot psychologist who made the most outrageous remarks about actual paedophiles (a few years ago). It caused OCD sufferers alarm and distress. OCD Action was quickly on to him and the newspaper that printed his comments. The psychologist has retracted the remarks, which I won’t write here. He now knows he was totally wrong, but what concerns me is that if professionals are coming out with erroneous and outrageous statements, what hope is there that the general public will understand? Also, I don’t believe there was a retraction in the tabloid paper concerned. I wonder how many readers believed what they read in his original article.

    Fri May 14 2010 14:48:11 #
  30. I never thought about what the public will think. I was only thinking of the many sufferers of OCD who do not know that they are not bad people. I'm sure there are lots; I was one of them recently.

    I am concerned about the public, now that you mention it. If the general public start to label everyone with OCD as pedophiles, it could prevent people with OCD to see doctors for help. I know that's what's holding me back from seeing anyone - fear of them saying I don't have OCD, and that I'm actually what I fear I am.

    It's a tough decision to make, I wish you the best.

    Fri May 14 2010 17:09:04 #

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