OCD Action

andromeda
Member

I am fed up with my dad and his OCD habits. I simply do not understand them and he refuses to seek help or talk about it. He's been this way since he was a child, hes in his early 60s now. He gives me nervous breakdowns on a daily basis and gives me chest pains all the time. I am physically disabled and cannot run away or leave the house, I am stuck with him in my face the majority of the day.

His habits are making me sick, I cannot handle it anymore. He has made it clear he does not care about anyone or anything more than his OCD. His problems are at the top and making himself feel better by completing his habits are all that matters. I've begged him and pleaded with him to stop, but he refuses and continues to "do this stuff" around me and in my face endlessly.

His habits are extremely odd, gross and inappropriate. He used to unzip his pants and pull his penis out and jiggle it in front of only me. He makes faces like he ate a lemon, tips his head up and down really fast and utters inaudible words and hisses at the end of his fit. Every time he passes certain points in the house, he stops and does has this fit where he nods his head and makes this face and says whispers something you cant hear, usually while tipping his glasses or walking back and forth. Another problem is that he follows me everywhere and needs to "meet me" if I am in one room and he is in another. He waits in the other room attached to my bathroom for example and waits for me to get close then darts in front of me and blocks my path, I have to move around him in the narrow corridor to the bathroom, this happens all the time. Once I am in there, he putters around outside and I hear sudden loud noises like stomps or something large falling, its him stomping around right outside the door. He does this if I get to the bathroom and close the door and he happens to not be in that area already. I cannot go to the bathroom without him being right outside the door.

I have a sleeping disorder that cripples me, I cannot work or drive. He insists on stomping relentlessly while taking a shower, walking up and down the steps 5 times and stomping while doing it, and slamming the showers sliding doors now and then, and during the night he opens and closes his bedroom door very loudly for hours over the course of the night. I cannot sleep, he doesnt care. My mom is in that room with him and she needs to get up early to go to work but rarely sleeps because of what he does

the worst parts are when he drives and when I speak to him. I am not allowed to speak to him without him "butting heads" with me, meaning anything I say, he opposes. If I say wow that looks nice, he says no thats awful. If I then try to trick him by later saying that thing was awful, he will say its nice. Every word that I utter to him results in a fight. His sickness allows him to call me names, horrid names, filthy names, demeaning names and pick fights with me. I am 25 years old, he is 60, I am not allowed to do or say anything without him telling me something like this. However, my little sister for example has never once been yelled at or told the things he tells me. His OCD tells him its okay to fight with me and reprimand me for doing nothing ( im not in the same room sometimes, if he drops a fork, its my fault ) but my sister really is a bad person and does bad things, never listens and is never told anything. When I try to get my dad to tell her to stop doing something, he tells me I am jealous and he will fight with me instead of telling her not to do something bad. Later, he will complain about how my sister does these things, but he refuses to say or do anything about the seriously bad things she does.

He has compulsive fits on the road while driving, we almost die every time I get into the car with him and if I say anything, make any movements or put my hands over my eyes in fear, he will turn the car around and drive back home, ending up upset at me for it. He tips his glasses, smiles in the mirror and makes that lemon face and utters something you cant hear, takes his hands off the wheel and pulls out into traffic at times nobody else would. If there is only 1 car on the road coming towards us and we are trying to pull out into that road, he will pull the car out just as that other car passes, almost crashing or highly increasing the odds of it, instead of just waiting for the car to pass by, there are no other cars on the entire road and he waits for that car to get as close as possible before it.

He also has a thing with his penis, he has to hold it and touch it, rub it almost constantly. It is a horrid experience. He refuses to seek help and never talked to a doctor. I needed to type all this out to vent to someone, I cannot escape this man. He is killing my life and I cannot leave the house to get away.

Thu Dec 8 2011 7:16:47 #
Truddles
Member

Hi andromeda,

Welcome to the forum

I'm so sorry to hear of all that you are going through. You're not whining, this is seriously affecting your health and you're crying out for help.

I realise that I'll probably be slated by some for what I'm about to say but here goes -

I have OCD and it makes my blood boil when I hear people using OCD as an excuse for this sort of behaviour. I have severe OCD and yet I don't go around treating people like this. I try to be considerate of the feelings of others however bad a day I'm having because of my OCD.

I'm not a professional but from what you've written it sounds to me as if there is more to this than just OCD. Some of it could possibly be attributed to OCD but most of it not. He is obviously very ill and needs help, but it's difficult if he won't seek help.

If he's not been seen by a doctor who says that this behaviour is OCD? Is it your family or is it him that calls it OCD in order to excuse his appalling behaviour?

I've begged him and pleaded with him to stop, but he refuses and continues to "do this stuff" around me and in my face endlessly.
If some of his behaviour is OCD then begging him to stop won't help but can make the situation worse. See If the person with OCD refuses help

You are obviously living in an abusive situation and my advice would be to speak to your doctor and seek his advice in order to get help for yourself as it's obviously making you ill. Regardless of whether it's OCD or not you don't have to put up with this sort of behaviour, there are people that can help you to escape this situation especially as you yourself are disabled.

With regards to his behaviour whilst driving, he shouldn't be driving if he's doing all that you say he is as he's just not safe to be behind a wheel.

Sorry but I have written this in a hurry as about to go out. Please don't hesitate to send me a PM (click on the send message bar under my avatar next to my post, but remember to write something in the subject box or it won't send) if you need someone to talk to.

For more information on OCD go to Resource Centre

Best wishes
Trudy

Thu Dec 8 2011 8:45:58 #
andromeda
Member

Thanks for the reply. He refuses to seek help, not diagnosis. Years ago he was diagnosed with OCD. There is no question, he repeats his fits every time he passes the same areas, walks up and backwards down the steps the same amount of times every time, overall a load of repeating behaviors. But he also again has other mental instabilities that revolve around me, I am his vent. He chose me as his personal vent to release upon for some reason, knowing I am on the verge of death to begin with ( as I am not at all healthy ) I am astounded any real man would do this to his son, let alone his son who doesnt have much time left.

I know he is sick, I can see he loves me and does anything he can for me outside of stopping his habits. He takes care of me but also makes things far worse than they should be. I have no control over it. It doesn't matter what you do or say, as my mom has given him ultematums for decades, threatening divorce and such, I've threatened to leave and never return knowing if I spend too long away from home I will die, he has not made any changes but instead became more intense with his fits and habits.

The man simply does not care and understand that what he does affects everything and everyone around him. He has made it clear to us that he thinks this is true, hes said it. He doesnt understand how or why his actions upset anyone else and everyone needs to leave him alone so he can continue with his habits that make my life a living hell. He is sick beyond reason,I can't do anything about it but go down in flames with him.

Thu Dec 8 2011 9:51:27 #
Tess
Member

Hi andromeda
I think your post has shocked and upset me more than anything I have ever previously read on this forum and I am aghast that this type of behaviour is happening behind closed doors in this country in the 21st century. I have had OCD for 44 years, I have met many people with OCD but never before heard of or witnessed any behaviour which is as grotesque as you are describing, even during my spells in psychiatric hospitals. What your father is doing is clearly abuse whatever the cause and it is unacceptable. I get the impression of a man who is living close to the edge of a breakdown who loves you dearly but needs professional help and support. I also think you need some periods of respite away from the family situation which I think would help both you and probably your father too. You are obviously an articulate young man despite your physical disability and I agree with Trudy that initially your best course of action would be to speak to your GP in confidence about what is going on. This sadly needs to be brought out into the open and addressed in an empathic and sensitive way so that you can all receive the support you need.

Thu Dec 8 2011 10:52:25 #
andromeda
Member

I completely agree, if I had somewhere to go I would go immediately. I have seen a few therapists and a hoard of doctors, there isn't much I can do for another person who refuses help. If I ask him to seek help or mention anything remotely close to it, I get the claws so to speak. He will get immensely upset, yelling and swearing and such eventually leading to him just telling me to go away and leave him alone.

He hasn't made a single attempt to get better in 50 some odd years of having these problems. Not once. What little family I do have including some doctors and psychs I have seen all agreed the anger is part of his compulsion. He gets angry at everything and handles small amounts of stress with extreme rage because they interrupted him. If someone interrupts him, especially me, I'll be punished for it with some insults and demoralizing names. Part of his OCD is to swear repeatedly, the same word or phrase over and over. The rage is usually focused at me because I am the only one near by to take anything out on. There are some habits he only does when I am there and nobody else is, things my mom tells me she never saw him do before, so it is clear I am his outlet and he uses me physically as his vent, including me into his ocd habits.

You are right, I see the love in his eyes and the horrors he endures daily, he knows he is immensely ill and cannot stop, it kills him, I can see that clearly. I know he loves me, but not enough to stop what he is doing or man up and try to get help. If you even attempt to talk to him about this, the claws come out and he will either slam you with insults and tell you to go away, or he will literally run away and lock himself in the bathroom or his bedroom.

There is no talking to him, my mom has tried for neigh 40 years with no success and I've tried for the past decade as well. He got worse with time. The family I do have does not come over much because of some of his habits, when he sits on the couch, he literally grasps his crotch and fumbles it around endlessly. He does it in sets of three and he counts it out, its sick because you can see everything clearly through his pants. Hes done this since before I can remember. I can't think of much else that is worse than seeing this on a daily basis. Just one of many things he does that are psychologically destructive to everyone near by.

Thu Dec 8 2011 11:20:12 #
BT
Member

I have upset people on this forum in the past and will do so again, I dare say, but many with OCD are utterly selfish. I do have empathy with your dad because he is obviously very ill. However, he has absolutely no right to be driving. I have a friend who still drives despite his compulsions making him a danger on the roads. I find this utterly irresponsible and totally selfish. OCD is no excuse. If a person cannot stop their compulsions then they must give up driving. If they can’t control such disgusting behaviour as your dad is displaying in front of you, then they should live alone.

Surely with your physical disability there must be help available to you. Are you in America or Canada? I have friends in both countries who have been found apartments and help for their disabilities. You obviously cannot continue like this.

Maybe your dad is beyond help, but if he hasn’t been willing to receive any then he won’t know.
Again this is utterly selfish. Unfortunately, some people with OCD have a very extreme obsessional personality and they do seem to be oblivious to the pain of others.

Thu Dec 8 2011 12:03:28 #
Tess
Member

Hi andromeda
What you describe your father doing is clearly chronic untreated OCD which has become more and more ingrained and habitual. If you challenge his behaviour, which will be as vital to him now as breathing, he will immediately go into defensive mode which will mean either striking out or retreating. I think you may be misunderstanding why he appears to be taking his rage out on you, because of your disability and your need for care you represent something in his life which is a very big responsibility and this mere fact can aggravate the OCD because people with OCD have an enhanced sense of personal responsibility. You have also mentioned that your condition is life limited and this must be causing him unbearable emotional pain and probably guilt. Responsibility - pain - guilt - these are all emotions which will fuel the OCD.
I get the feeling that despite your father's behaviour you are very close, you can see the love in his eyes and can feel the terrible distress he is feeling and these grotesque compulsions are comforting him yet at the same time by continuing to carry out these actions he is just reinforcing them and making them worse and you can see this happening.
I can undersatnd your views that you don't feel he loves you enough to stop or that he is man enough to get help but I think if you had suffered severe OCD yourself you might feel differently. The causes of OCD are still not fully understood but there is believed to be a problem in communication between the central part of the brain which controls all the body's automatic functions and the part which controls thoughts. The automatic part of the brain controls the body's basic survival systems and I can asure you from first hand experience that the fears and anxieties caused by OCD can feel as strong or even stronger than the basic survival instinct - and sadly some people with OCD make the choice to end their lives because this battle is just too hard. So it doesn't just boil down to courage or love, OCD can be too powerful and it can overpower all other emotions right up to the need to survive.
There is a lot of help available for people with OCD, there is absolutely no need for your father to feel ashamed, embarrassed or afraid to accept help - but ultimately unless he is willing to take that first step and ask for help and support then the hands of the medical profession are tied.
What you describe about your father getting angry if he is interrupted is another classic example of OCD, my father was just the same, he would absorb himself with work on the dining room table and my mother would have the dinner ready and need the table and he wouldn't budge - then as the dinner was starting to spoil she would give up and try to lay it out in the kitchen instead and he would fly into a rage. I can understand how this behaviour can be seen as selfishness but the person with OCD is oblivious to what is going on around them because their brain is working overdrive all the time and telling them that what they are doing is imperative for their very survival.
It is desperately sad and I'm sorry I can't offer you any really useful advice on how to improve things but maybe this will help you understand a little more.

Thu Dec 8 2011 13:03:34 #
Truddles
Member

I completely agree with BT; OCD is never an excuse for bad behaviour. OCD isn't classed as a personality disorder unlike OCPD.

It is often quoted on this forum that people with OCD are the most caring people in the world. For many this is true, but for some they only care if it satisfies their obsessions and compulsions, while for some they are just selfish. This has nothing to do with OCD but to do with their personality and any other mental health conditions that they may have.

I have severe OCD and get extremely frustrated with myself and frequently get so angry with myself that the air is blue. BUT I would never take it out on someone else however absorbed I am with my OCD. I have been told by more than one professional that part of my problem is that I continually put the feelings of others before my own and this perpetuates the OCD and has caused a serious deterioration in my physical health.

However much you love your father you have to first and foremost consider your own health. Go to your doctor and ask for his help regarding your situation. Your father obviously doesn't want help but it would appear that you do. You owe it to yourself to get help for yourself as it's causing you great distress and affecting your physical health.

Thu Dec 8 2011 14:30:49 #
andromeda
Member

thank you guys for the support, it is very needed

We are not that close, my dad is distant and was rarely present through the past 5 years of surgeries I've had that left me bed ridden for months at a time, all back to back opps. The guy never came into my room to see how i was save for maybe two instances. He has never checked on me to see if i needed help in any way, emotional or physical and never popped into my area just to talk or see whats up. He doesn't know how to talk and will say things that will upset you enough to make you sick. He's just that type, if you are having a bad day or are in pain he is the type who will instigate something negative or say something to seriously upset you. I am not allowed to vent by the way, no matter what my situation is, no matter how much pain I am in or what happened to me, no matter how upset I appear if I try to vent and show some anger, he gets more angry. My favorite line to use is " his is always bigger" and he's been that way since I can remember. He did it better when he was a kid, I'm doing it wrong, he can do it better, this is how you do it. Ect ect. He is the type to brush my hands away from what I am doing so he can do it for me, but then revert right around afterwards and tell me I should do more for myself. When I get very upset and vent out something, ranting and raving on occasion that had nothing to do with him, he will say something to me that is merit enough to make you want to throw up with anger. Imagine something terrible just happened to you, you come home and vent about it, you cry, you fall to your knees with rage and appear to "freak out"...normally if you see a person do this you dont approach them and call them names. If you saw a man come into work for example having a nervous breakdown, would you go up to him and tell him its his fault and call him names? Demoralize him, instigate yet more rage? Hell no, thats when someone will sucker punch you...but my dad knows no bounds and makes sure I am not allowed to vent. His is bigger, if I vent and am angry at something not even related to him, he automatically starts ranting and raving as well but with more intensity than mine. He's done this since I was a child. I have no vent.

He is crazy, I can't argue that. It's immensely clear and trying to get something rational out of an irrational man is impossible. I do live in the USA, sadly, our health care system is horrible and I went without any insurance for a long time. I suffered for years but thats another story. I will never receive enough help from my country to allow me to survive on my own. I am a single disabled male, I cannot receive more than $449 a month via SSI. Nobody can live on $449 at 25 years old with hoards of medical needs. Insurance only covers so much, not all of it lol, so thats out of the question and something I tried and failed to pursue for many years.

Back to my Dad, I don't know what to say or what to do. He will be the end of me. He is indeed immensely selfish and a chronic exaggerator. Him and his are more important. Making himself feel better or to feel like he needs to do these things to survive, but at the cost and expense of others is inexcusable. He makes me suffer on a daily basis, he cares not and makes no effort to help or change. He wants everyone to "leave him alone". It is hard to "leave him alone" if the man wont let me go to the bathroom in peace...

anyway, I feel much better saying something lol

Thu Dec 8 2011 14:38:13 #
BT
Member

Tess, I don’t think anyone with OCD is unaware that their behaviour is affecting others around them. At times we may be slightly blinkered while fear compels us to carry out certain rituals, but I think anyone who is not selfish will be able to reflect and realise their behaviour is distressing others. Even if they are oblivious, as you said, it is temporary, we all have time to reflect and those who are not selfish do their utmost not to behave in such a way. Those who are selfish won’t try to change, I truly think it does come down to that. Otherwise we can make excuses for everything. I agree our brains can be working in overdrive and OCD may be convincing us that certain behaviour is imperative for our survival, but we are sane people and we can see how our behaviour is due to the OCD and unreasonable to inflict on others. I am not for one moment saying everyone can change, but everyone can try. And, I repeat, if a person cannot change then they need to stay off the road if driving compulsions are a feature of their OCD.

Andromeda, have you a charity for your particular disability that you can contact? I do know people in the States who have been placed in accommodation free of charge because of their disability, it’s worth looking into further, because you can’t go on like this. What does your mom have to say about your situation?

Thu Dec 8 2011 15:28:16 #
BT
Member

P.S. Could you let your mom read the messages here? I'm wondering if she knows just how much pain you are in due to your dad.

Thu Dec 8 2011 15:33:45 #
Tess
Member

Hi BT
We usually see eye to eye on everything but on this particular subject I think we may have to agree to differ (amicably of course!). I agree with you that a lot of OCD behaviour can be selfish and that the sufferer knows it is selfish but being able to do anything about it is a very different matter. It is painful for me to say this but most regular members on here know my personal story and circumstances to some extent. At one point my OCD was so bad that for many years no-one could come into my home except my husband and he could only do this by obeying some very punitive cleansing rituals. It has almost broken my heart that I could not allow even my own mother or own son in, even if they had been outside begging at death's door. My husband's mother came round just once and I wouldn't invite her in and she was terribly hurt. When she found out I had a problem she was furious and ranted at me that I had married her son knowing that I had this problem, implying that I was unbelievably selfish and had no right to do so. Yet when it comes to matters which the OCD does not affect I like to feel that those who know me don't consider me unduly selfish. I've just been and asked my husband because he will tell me the truth and he says if we take OCD out of the equation he does not think I am a selfish person. But many, many things I have done in my life, to my chagrin and regret have been unbelievably selfish.

Thu Dec 8 2011 15:55:08 #
BT
Member

Tess, you are right, we do seem to share the same views a great deal. I also agree that we can differ amicably!

I don’t have time to reply as I would like, but just wanted to say that I view your situation very differently from Andromeda’s dad‘s. You come across as far from selfish and the things you have detailed here have done nothing to change my mind. Will try to explain more tomorrow!

Thu Dec 8 2011 16:02:36 #
Tess
Member

PS I have slightly different views on the driving matter too! I live in the country, we have no bus route, I don't drive so I rely on my husband and most of our support group members have to drive just in order to live their lives in the community - to access shops and services. OCD is a complex disorder, where we can potentially cause problems in one area, we can be overly conscientious and safe in another. There are vast numbers of the population who are not really safe to be on the roads, people eat, smoke, listen to music at high volumes, answer phones, wear ridiculous stiletto heeled shoes, engage in road rage, boyracing, etc - then there are those who are obese and can hardly get behind the wheel, a heart attack or stroke just waiting to happen. Are people with OCD any more dangerous than the average motorist? I know of several people with OCD whose compulsions must make driving very tricky - having to read every road sign completely, having to repeatedly go back to see if they've knocked someone down, having to cleanse their hands every time they touch the hand brake. Strange thing is I've never learned of any of them having an accident because of the OCD. Maybe they get spotted a mile off by other drivers on the road who give them a wide berth, who knows, but to take their licence away along with their independence is only going to make their lives even harder.

Thu Dec 8 2011 16:14:16 #
BT
Member

Tess, I have every sympathy with those who have driving compulsions. I used to turn my car around and look for a person I feared I might have knocked over. Whilst doing that I probably was not concentrating fully on my driving and was far more likely to have injured someone. If someone had pointed this out to me, I would have either stopped the compulsion or ceased driving. If I had actually injured someone while carrying out my compulsion I doubt I would have been able to live with it. Eventually, it dawned on me, the irony of the situation - I was placing others more at risk by ensuring I hadn’t hurt someone. I managed to stop the compulsion. I realise I was fortunate - for some it isn’t possible.

However, compulsions can be much worse and have an even greater impact on a person’s driving and some are obviously totally unacceptable. Even if it means the person is unable to leave their house, they should hang up their car keys. Such examples are: a compulsion to have a foot on the accelerator for a set number of counts, no matter what the circumstances. Other forms of magical thinking where driving has to 'fit in' around counting etc. Driving with one hand, because the other one is contaminated. Taking eyes off the road for far longer than is necessary to thoroughly read road signs. Driving while almost blind, because glasses fell on the floor and became too contaminated to wear.

All the above I have heard of happening and each shocked me. Tess, you are right about the many examples you gave of driving dangerously without having OCD. If I had any powers and caught someone behaving in such a manner I would ban them for life.

Obviously, people with physical problems can be banned from driving. If we are the thoroughly decent bunch of people some say we are, then not one person would carry out compulsions while driving. It’s every bit as irresponsible as drink driving. If someone living in the country, miles from a bus route, developed epilepsy, for example, would it be OK for them to keep their licence, due to their circumstances?

Returning to your other message. I have friends whose fears of contamination place extreme pressure on family members and it’s difficult to class them as being selfish, because I appreciate that they are terrified. However, even then, it does depend on their compulsions. I would not call you selfish for being unable to allow anyone in your home. As for the ‘punitive cleansing rituals’ - as an adult, your husband had a choice. But, I have friends who do things to their children which are not only unacceptable but damaging. (I don’t just mean changing clothes and washing regularly, but much more extreme behaviour - which, although I understand the driving force behind it, would appear perverted by many). I don’t take the hard line some professionals do, and I also realise that some people simply do not respond to treatment, but I do feel that when compulsive behaviour is causing extreme distress to others, a person should either try to seek help or move out of the family home if children are being harmed.

I probably seem utterly cruel, for I am obviously saying that some people should walk away from their families, be banned from driving - possibly driven to a life of isolation. As if the hell of this condition isn’t bad enough. There is no ideal solution, Tess. Until the cure is found there won’t be. However, should the lives of a whole family be ruined because of one person? Should young children be placed at risk because an OCD sufferer, driving a car, has to count to ten before they can brake? The fact that ignorant, selfish people eat, drink, apply make-up and even use laptops (apparently) while driving, doesn’t justify the actions of some with OCD, even though their behaviour is fear based and not intentionally negligent.

Fri Dec 9 2011 13:22:48 #
andromeda
Member

You must understand, my mom has lived with him for 45 years and is far past broken by him. She is so heart broken that this man doesnt care enough to try to get better that she just goes with it. She's told me the only reason she stays with him is because he literally has no where to go, in his mind he can't work. He has his reasons for not working, I have no idea what they truly are but it is absolutely clear he is just so scared of everything, he refuses to work. He is fit and healthy, there is nothing physically wrong with him, nor is there anything mentally wrong as he can sit on his computer for hours a day and yell at me about everything lol. He is just lazy. It is that simple, it became routine for him to say he cant do it, so he doesnt.

You want to feel bad for anyone, don't feel bad for me, feel bad for my mom who had a brother with OCD FAR WORSE than my dads. She endured people with OCD since she was born. My uncle, her brother passed away a few years ago, his OCD was so bad it killed him. My grandmother had a stroke and he couldnt help her, wouldnt help her because he had to complete his rituals and "literally stepped over her on the floor" to complete them before calling for help hours later. He died because he thought if he eats, his daughter will die. So he starved himself to death. He did similar things my dad did, all related to his crotch area, swore repeatedly, pretty much the same with some different variations.

Anyway, no there are no programs I can actually survive on. There are housing programs but good old Uncle Sam thinks my condition is not severe enough. I can still stand up for 60 seconds before collapsing so I wont get the help I need. Also, the only housing available for sick people are places nobody would ever actually want to live. I've looked into all of that stuff and I simply do not have the strength. I can get out there to other states into housing, but I cannot also receive free care with it, its one or the other. I cannot get both.

Its a nasty situation, not a clue what I am supposed to do but I feel like I have no choice but to die slowly physically and have my dad kill me slowly emotionally.

Sat Dec 10 2011 18:03:11 #
andromeda
Member

In regards to the driving thing, he does some scary things. My stomach drops and my face goes red with fear every time I sit in the car with him. My mom hates when he drives,everyone does but you cannot avoid the times when he is the only one there to drive me where I need to, I cannot drive or walk so there is no choice for me. He has immense road rage, he is annoyed at everyone anywhere near him on the road. He cannot drive for more than 15 seconds without swearing someone, while doing so he takes his eyes and head off the road and will swear them while driving past, or literally turn around in his chair facing the wrong way yelling. His rituals on the road include tipping his glasses and smiling every time he passes certain points locally. He nods really fast like he is having a small seizure and closes his eyes completely, he mumbles sometime and ends it with a loud hiss sound. Every time he gets into and out of the car, he has to kick his feet really fast. He has a lot of rituals in the car...

Sat Dec 10 2011 18:10:40 #
Tess
Member

Hi andromeda
I feel so desperately sorry for your situation but I am at a loss as to how to help you. You say your father is lazy and that there is nothing mentally wrong with him but your entire post paints a picture of a man with a chronic mental health condition living close to a breakdown. The mental torment experienced by people with severe OCD is not visible and on this forum we do not judge because no-one can know what is going on in someone else's mind or the extent of their suffering - and the fact that your dad can sit for hours at his computer does not mean that the OCD does not disable other aspects of his life. Your mother must be an immensely understanding lady and she must care deeply for your dad if she is prepared to live with his behaviour rather than see him with nowhere to go.
I think you need to take every opportunity available to you to get away from the home environment, to mix with other people and to try to fill your time with things you enjoy doing and try to improve the relationship with your father, even if only for your mother's sake.

Sat Dec 10 2011 18:56:39 #
BT
Member

Andromeda, although Tess and I seem to disagree over the driving issues and a few other things, I am certainly in agreement with her over your dad’s mental health. Often people with OCD are regarded as lazy/selfish and, as Tess pointed out, no one can really appreciate the hell another is suffering. And none of us should really ever judge another for that reason. It sounds to me as if your dad’s life is unbearable and I am truly sorry that his symptoms are making your life unbearable, too.

Some of your dad’s behaviour sounds Tourette-like and obviously he is very seriously affected by his obsessions and compulsions. How much a person is actually fighting their problems, how much they really do care and feel ashamed about how they are affecting others is impossible to quantify.

Like Tess, I feel you need to concentrate on doing everything you can to find ways to remove yourself from a dreadful environment. Given your physical disability this must be extremely difficult, but surely there are charities that would help you to have at least days out?

One of my friends, who has been housed by his local authority, is not living in luxury by any means, but it is a clean apartment and he is adequately cared for. Also, his disability doesn’t sound as severe as yours. Does it depend which state you are in? (He is in Connecticut).

I still feel that it should be your dad who moves out, for as much as I have empathy with his situation, he must be aware of the damage he is inflicting. But, maybe he is terrified of doing so? You said he is lazy and there is nothing mentally wrong with him (I do strongly disagree there!) you then added that it is absolutely clear that he is so scared of everything. Possibly he is too afraid to move out. As Tess said, don’t be fooled by the fact that he can spend hours on the computer - it doesn't mean he is OK mentally.

Your uncle’s situation is also tragic. But, although it appears selfish that he didn’t stop his rituals to help his dying mother, you went on to say he starved because he felt that if he ate, his daughter would die. The first seems an extremely selfish act, the second tells a different story. I think when a person dies because of their OCD (and your uncle is the third person I have heard of who has) it is a clear indication of the force behind the compulsions.

We have a television programme in this country where the host will severely reprimand alcoholics and tell them their behaviour is utterly selfish. He adds that they should put their families first, before the booze. It’s easy to agree with him, because these people are causing their families unbearable suffering. However, when you look at their tortured faces (and often jaundiced eyes and skin) it’s very clear how much they are suffering, possibly even more than their families, and often they are dying.

Just because many alcoholics can quit doesn’t mean all can. It doesn’t necessarily indicate that those who do manage to give up alcohol are less selfish than those who can’t. It is quite possible that some people simply cannot stop. It is also clear that OCD varies greatly. I have friends who find a mere cold will stop their compulsions. Or if there is something that means a great deal to them they will be able to improve. Others, actually die because they cannot stop their compulsions. It’s impossible to say whether weakness/selfishness plays a role. But certainly one of my friends who died because of his OCD (in a similar way to your uncle) was the strongest most altruistic person I have ever known. Obviously his OCD had an incredible hold over him.

I truly feel so sorry for your whole family. It really shakes my faith when I hear of such suffering.

Sun Dec 11 2011 14:08:18 #
andromeda
Member

When I said "there is nothing mentally wrong with him" I actually mean't his cognitive skills. He is a walking wealth of information, he is calculating and very confident when it comes to completing any physical tasks. In that regard, there is nothing stopping him from working or getting the help he needs. He can sit at a computer all day and also stand up and walk around for hours. He has chosen to avoid self improvement. His mental breakdowns are caused by himself and not any exterior forces. All of his problems are internal, none that I am aware of actually stem from something in the outside world. He has no responsibilities at all, he's never worked a real job nor had to pay any bills, hes never been sick either and really has no idea what it means to be in authentic pain. He has been babied his entire life, my mom took care of him since he was a teen and continues to this day. This reflects upon me, as my mom works all day and I am stuck with him. He doesn't know what it means to be a man or how to take care of anyone. He doesn't really understand the concept that other people have feelings, not just him. He does his rituals to make himself feel better and has told us all he doesn't understand why it affects us so much, therefore he refuses to stop. He doesn't believe we have any feelings or emotions what so ever, just him. This fact is mixed with the idea that he simply does not care enough to try to stop for any of us. We are a very distant 2nd to all of his needs. He is #1. We are 100-1000th place, as he reserved 2-99th place for all his rituals. They are vastly more important than we are.

He's made it quite clear that he will not seek help and his illness causing my downfall is second to the illness itself. Sadly, I do not have any other family willing to take me in, nor will any housing programs. I've looked into that for the past few years with no success. The USA sucks for these types of things. I am on disability and I receive $449 every month, it does not pay for half of my monthly medical expenses and my mom has to pay the rest.

I know its sad, but I have no chance of survival. Nothing is worse than knowing you have little time left and someone close to you is making your last moments a living hell to make themselves feel nice. I understand he is sick and is mentally unstable, I see the struggle, he hates himself for it and there is no doubt he loves me. His illness is so severe that he has no choice but to do these things. How does one inspire rational thought into an irrational person? It isn't possible. He refuses medication, medical advice and doctors, I've threatened him with my life and so has my mom, he never stopped so I believe doctors stand no chance with him.

Tue Dec 13 2011 21:11:57 #
Tess
Member

Hi andromeda
What you have described is OCD - OCD can be mild, moderate or severe, when it is severe it is classed by the World Health Organisation as being in the top 10 most disabling conditions to affect humankind - and this includes physical as well as mental disabilities. Just because your father is physically well and intellectually competent has no bearing whatsoever on the severity of his condition. By threatening him you will serve no purpose other than to make his OCD and his own unseen suffering worse.
I agree with you that your father should be willing to accept that he has a very serious and chronic mental disability for which treatment is available and for the sake of everyone else in the family, as well as himself, he should be willing to engage with the treatments which are available. But he also has the right to refuse to be treated.
In answer to your question how can you inspire rational thought into an irrational person - you can't. However, OCD does not make you an irrational person, the rational thought patterns run alongside the irrational ones but the OCD overpowers the rational thoughts which makes the disorder all the more distressing for the sufferer.
Just because threats by yourself and your mum have not stopped his OCD behaviour does not mean doctors stand no chance, I have already explained that all these threats will do is to make his OCD worse. There are very few whose OCD cannot be alleviated by modern treatments but the law requires the sufferer to be willing to accept treatment, it cannot be imposed upon them. I suggest you learn about OCD because some of your assumptions, although very understandable are way off the mark, then you could perhaps talk to your father about treatments. It is quite possible that medication would help even if he is unwilling to engage in psychological therapies.

Wed Dec 14 2011 11:11:06 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hello Andromeda -

I can only echo Tess' wise words here. Bear in mind that I can emphatise very well with your feelings, and the way you responded to your Dad. But your and your Mum's reactions, sad as it sounds, 'harden' his behaviour, his inner thoughts and fears, and his resistance. (This is, by the way, why patients with OCD partially live in a different world, as I wrote in another thread. They tend not to respond to everyday methods to make people change - their condition gets worse).

From my perspective, I would guess that, should you succeed in getting your father to accept treatment, a first step forward might be: medication. The psychological advantage of this is that it is something that he does at home, out of free will, so he won't have to so much feel like a patient who is forced to go to some doctor in a white coat, or even to an 'institution' (as he would probably see every move towards a clinic, I mean). People with his condition often have the impression that they still have full control, i.e. a completely free will, or total personal freedom if you will. But your post about his compulsive and insulting behaviour suggests otherwise.

Medication will take its own time to settle in, but I can imagine that, should he respond well to it, he might get more and better insight into his own situation in a couple of weeks after having started it. And that in turn could pave the way for adding psychological guidance.

Hope this helps, and please do keep us updated.

Best from Cuthbert.

Thu Dec 15 2011 9:54:10 #
BT
Member

Andromeda, you mentioned that your father has no idea what it means to be in authentic pain. I know people who have endured extreme physical pain, in order to avoid the mental torment of their OCD. We cannot quantify or compare pain.

Having said that, from everything you have written, your dad does sound incredibly selfish. A close relative once pointed out to me (when I was terrified of taking medication) that I could choose whether to refuse treatment if I lived alone, but when I am inflicting such misery on others, I have to put their needs first and do all I can to improve. It does seem as though your father is blind to the needs of others. That includes his family and any road users.

As Tess said, your dad can’t be forced to face treatment and probably threats will make him worse. I still feel your focus needs to be on getting the help you need. I realise you have looked into this, but pressure needs to be placed on social workers, or someone, to help you escape this hell.

Thu Dec 15 2011 14:04:33 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hi BT -

far be it from me to engage in some semantic debate. Your post just above is fine, but I disagree on one definition. I wouldn't call Andromeda's dad 'selfish', in the usual sense of that word. Assuming that his main problem is a very severe form of OCD: then I must accept that the main goal in his compulsive and ritualised behaviour is to relieve himself of intense pain. You write a bit later: '...is blind to the needs of others'. That is right. IMHO that implies: he cannot see the needs of others, beset by immense personal problems as he obviously is. In my book, he'd be 'incredibly selfish' only if he were able to see the needs of others, but would refuse to answer these needs. But your word 'blind' precisely indicates that he cannot see, is incapable to see those needs.

This is very tragic. A form of incapacitation that fate bestowed upon that father, which is wanted by no one, least of all by that Dad himself, I think. And it truly begs for treatment.

Hope I could point out what I meant to say here, BT.

Best, Cuthbert.

Thu Dec 15 2011 14:29:53 #
BT
Member

Hello Cuthbert, ‘Blind’ was a very bad choice of wording. We frequently use it incorrectly in this country to mean a person is inconsiderate of others. A blind person obviously cannot see, a person with OCD is aware. I know many people with extreme OCD - some care that their OCD affects others, but some do not give a damn. That’s not just my assumption, I have heard a few say as much. It’s not due entirely to severity of symptoms, either, but the personality which lies beneath. I had one dear friend who died because of his OCD, but he still made a tremendous effort for others around him. Some of the things Andromeda’s dad has said and done are really inexcusable. Also, no matter how much his father is suffering (and I don‘t question that he is - it’s obvious), he should not be on the road. I have a friend with a minor physical condition who has been banned from driving. Andromeda’s dad could kill someone and he does have a choice, he can stay off the roads!

I still have empathy with his dad, but I have a good deal more with Andromeda‘s situation, he seems caught up in the hell with no choices nor means of escape.

I’m sure at times I must appear to have little understanding for those with extreme OCD. Nothing could be further from the truth. However, unless we wish to be regarded as an incredibly obnoxious bunch of people, we cannot say anything is acceptable just because the person inflicting such misery on others is very ill themselves.

I do appreciate that we can go to inordinate lengths with compulsions to try to relieve our suffering, but there is always a time when we can reflect and realise the distress we are causing those around us. It’s not even as if Andromeda’s dad is prepared to seek help.

Cuthbert, I do agree that the whole situation is very tragic and I have heard similar stories where whole families’ lives are being destroyed.

Best wishes, Beth.

Fri Dec 16 2011 12:02:39 #
Tess
Member

Hi BT
But if Andromeda's dad stayed off the roads he could not take Andromeda to the Day Centre or for medical care so it ends up solving one problem and creating another which could potentially be worse. It's not for us to judge or to take sides.

Fri Dec 16 2011 12:41:04 #
BT
Member

Tess, I do realise that and I also feel for those you spoke about previously who have no means of transport other than their cars. However, Andromeda, himself, is saying his dad is a danger, he said he is almost killed every time he travels in his car. Andromeda may well choose to take the risk and travel with his father, in order to get some relief outside the home. However, does every road user at that time have a say whether they are prepared to take the risk? I'm sorry, Tess, I do understand, but we have to look at the bigger picture, and as a society we must judge.

If anyone who approves of risky driving due to OCD, let me please ask you this; if the person you love most in the world is harmed/killed by someone carrying out their compulsions, would you still have empathy and say the OCD sufferer should continue driving?

Your comment about creating another problem that could be potentially worse, I do not agree with. What could be worse that harming another person?

Maybe I am on another planet! But, trust me, those without OCD will not think too highly of this kind of selfish attitude. We will be viewed in an even worse light than we are already.

Fri Dec 16 2011 13:37:14 #