OCD Action

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Citaloman
Member

Im sorry but its me again, i cant take this pain for much longer. I write on here but i cant be sure who i am. Am i one of you. I feel like a fraud as i doubt i have ocd.

I am plagued by guilt or what feels like guilt. I have CBT tomorrow and im really scared. In my assesment the therapist said ok we will go two routes

1/ you havent done anything
2/ you have done something

Im scared stiff of number 2. I look for answers, i thought i had done domething in 2007 i keep thinking did you think about this in say 2006 while being here etc. Everytime i do i get immense feelings of guilt and anxiety. When i look at pictures from a few months after the supposed event i look at myself and think were you thinking about this then. Etc

The logic that when i thought of this thing i had to think of a location and also what i might have done, which was two things. The things themselves are weird and the first one was so vivid. One was literally one poke and the other is thinking innapropriately about something i saw. My second thought is now with me every waking moment, sometimes i shake my head in defiance and thinking i didnt do that the other times i think of linking evidence that causes me fear.

Im at my wits end today with CBT tomorrow and worrying that i will never experience love again or be loved is killing me. How do you tell a new partner what your worried about without them running a mile.

I changed tablets almost two weeks ago to fluroxetine.

I dont want to be weird or one of those, i cry every night while walking my dog just praying for some peace. Im not hugely religious but while in write this i worry that GOD will not help me now as i have said the above even though i pray every night. I sometimes just want to die and then if there is such a place as Heaven work for him etc and do good. I sound mad but its all i have to hold onto at the moment.

My mum is OCD and has been throught this and when i talk to her i feel like she doesnt get how i feel. She also suffered from past tense worries.

The day i thought of this i was so ill and i thought dont think that and bang, i did. Now i think you were thinking no dont think that as there was something to hide . But if that was the case why would i have too think of location and also have two ideas and also why would i tell people about it, my girlfriend at the time and my mum. I keep thinking that i was somehow getting it out in the open.

I think about when i told my girlfriend about it it felt like it was me asking "i think i did this, but is this ok"

My brain is fried and i need a rest. The best time of day is when im asleep. I can have have "horrible" thoughts about people and i know this is a symptom of ocd but i keep thinking that im having them and not liking them because i want to be a good person becuase of what i might have done, if that makes any sense.

I had a worry a few weeks back that i had done somethign to a good friends son but managed to say no its load of rubbish.

But this, this is becoming all cosuming.

I keep thinking why that location and time and why was the second thought of what i had done two fold, i did this and then this.

If this is a chemical imbalance then please sort yourself out, if it isnt then all i cam think is i must do right and then somehow find peace. I hate mentioninng the S word but its my go to thing, if all fails well...

Im sorry but the drive home from work was a flood of tears and i had to post.

It doesnt help that their is a girl i want to get to know but i cannot as im scared of dragging another into this and two telling her about it. Im to honest to not tell people i care about.

Am i going mad. i watched a film the other day called shutter island based in a mental home, and it featured people with personality disorders and sociopaths, sociopaths are people as i undertand it are people who can convince others and themselves that they havent done things. I now think im that.

Just let me rest.

Tue Jan 17 2012 19:24:42 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi Citaloman, I'm just thinking now what to say... I too worry about things, but OCD makes things a lot worse than they really are. Things which are trivial matters can get blown out of all proportion, the intrusive thoughts build up and become a soup of perceived guilt and despair, stuff that is in our minds eye, but still seems real to us in our thoughts... The fact that we feel bad about the thoughts is proof that we are good people really. If we weren't, we wouldn't care so much. The fact that we care so much, makes us good people, who fear they've done something awfully wrong somewhere along the way. No on is gonna be perfect, but we can't accept anything less. We are human and fallible, we have the right to make mistakes, all sorts of things like that, but OCD prevents us from even forgiving ourselves, yet we ask God to. OCD is an absolute pig, I'm growing alongside you now, so you aren't on your own with this. And that is hopefully gonna lift you a bit.
I believe your CBT therapist will help you to develop new ways of thinking, that will allow the thoughts to eventually fade away to nothing. Moving on from these thoughts will take time and practice...
The movie you watched will have been dramatized out of all proportion, it is supposed to be entertainment for those who like to be frightened, but for us it is not like that. Programmes like that will only scare us.
We aren't going mad, we're just way over sensitive to things around us, and the way we think people see us.more later...
Wannabe

Tue Jan 17 2012 20:02:49 #
Citaloman
Member

Im so lonely. I have family but im just so lonely wannabe.

Tue Jan 17 2012 20:10:05 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi Citaloman, That awful feeling of being lonely in a crowd. Life is so unfair, and I do often wonder what the point of it all is, but there has to be something to keep going for.
I remember when you got that download of Claire Weeks on i-tunes, things were improving then, so it does happen, it is of course, these 'down' times that sneak in and make us feel useless... It's horrible isn't it?
Hopefully your CBT session tomorrow will help you a bit more... It is very early days as I understand... It is like your medication is still very new to you as well, it will take time to work, the side effects come first, and then, when the therapeutic effects kick in, hopefully you will find yourself happier than you have been maybe for years...
Wannabe

Tue Jan 17 2012 20:26:57 #
Citaloman
Member

God i hope so. Please.

Tue Jan 17 2012 20:29:46 #
Citaloman
Member

I look at the stars sometimes and just think, end, please end

Tue Jan 17 2012 20:32:51 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi Citaloman, hopefully one day you'll look back on this with a happier heart. Just get to that CBT tomorrow to push the boundaries forward. It has to be worth it, for you, never mind everyone else, but for you. You are a good man, it comes through your posts, you are worth it, and one day, we'll get to find out why life has treated us this way. I used to think that people were laughing at me and my percieved failures, people laughing at me from heaven. I have this thought, that when I get to heaven, I'm gonna find the people who've been laughing at me all these years, and tell them off. As far as Hell is concerned, it is right here on the planet for most of us on here...
You are worth it my friend...
With a career in higher education you've helped possibly thousands of young people achieve their academic ambitions, so you are definitely worth it, it's just the OCD trying to convince you otherwise. It is doing it to me too.
We need to give ourselves unconditional love, just as your dog does for you when you are at home, or out on a walk
You are worth it, you are worth the therapy you're on, so get as much out of it as you can.
Wannabe

Tue Jan 17 2012 21:08:00 #
Citaloman
Member

Thanks, i thankyou for your love. Just hope im worth it.

Tue Jan 17 2012 21:19:55 #
playthoseblues
Member

Hi Citaloman,

My laptop batteries about to go so can't read all the post, but I saw the bit in thinking you're a fraud and you don't have OCD. I had/have the exact same thing too, and I did tell my therapists this too, so don't think you're alone. I think this a very common symptom too.

I'll type more tommorow morning. Sorry!

Stay safe

Jon

Tue Jan 17 2012 21:21:45 #
Salford Pete
Member

Hi Citaloman,I reckon you won't see this post until after your appointment on Wed but if you do can i suggest you let it all out with your therapist,it will help just to get it out of your system and your therapist will fully understand your situation.All the best.Pete.

Tue Jan 17 2012 23:10:00 #
Mike
Member

Citaloman,

I remember when I was in a situation similar to yours, in terms of how severe the OCD and anxiety got. I remember thinking "I have two options: 1) tell my girlfriend something that would make me lose her forever, or 2) keep on dealing with this horrible anxiety". I knew that neither option 1 or 2 were feasible, because I was so scared of losing her and because I couldn't deal with the anxiety any longer. I was in an acute state of panic. I remember going to bed every night staring up at the dark ceiling and praying that I could somehow escape all this pain. I remember wondering to myself, "how could one person possibly deserve all this torture?" There were times when I felt that the only escape from the pain was suicide, but then I felt that I would be dealing tremendous, irreconciliable pain to my family and friends by doing so. So, my escape route vanished: I was truly trapped in Hell.

I ended up giving in to the OCD and engaging in the compulsion that scared me to death, only because I simply could not continue to live in so much pain. After losing my girlfriend (although not permanently), I had a mental breakdown and went home for 4 days, skipping out on school. I felt that my life was broken, and that it might be unrepairable. I remember thinking "what will I be doing in 20 years? Will I be living at home with my mom, with no job, because the OCD has handicapped me?" I remember feeling little to no hope, and it was the scariest few weeks of my life.

Yet here I am, 1 1/2 years later, doing just fine. I owe my life to ERP therapy. I had been getting cognitive therapy for the OCD up until my breakdown, and it did absolutely NOTHING. No matter how many times my therapist tried to use reason and logic to relinquish my anxiety and fears, no matter how many times she told me that it was just the OCD (which I had truly begun to doubt), no matter how many times I called my mom in panic, telling her that I legitimately did not know what was going to happen to me, NOTHING helped. Nothing, that is, until I found the right therapist using the right kind of therapy.

The reason I'm telling you this is that it is times like this when we need to realize that no matter how bad things get, they don't have to STAY that way, and in fact, they almost never do. One day in the future you will look back on this situation and say "hey, that was tough, but I got through it". Help for OCD is out there. ERP therapy, cognitive therapies, and medication have helped a tremendous number of people live a normal life. I don't know exactly what your therapist is doing, but hopefully it's ERP and/or cognitive therapy adjusted for OCD. How long have you been having these issues with anxiety and guilt about things you might have done? How long have you been addressing them with your therapist?

I'd be more than happy to hear more about your particular OCD fears, and I could give you an idea of how the experts in the ERP field would address them, but for right now I just wanted to tell you that you WILL get through this. And once you do, you will be so incredibly happy that you worked hard to get through it, rather than taking the easy way out.

Remember, you will NOT feel the way you do now forever. Just stick it out for now, and eventually you'll find the right combination of therapy and medication to help you effectively deal with these kinds of situations if they ever come up again. Or better yet, hopefully they'll never get this bad again.

-Mike

Tue Jan 17 2012 23:29:24 #
Citaloman
Member

I was in bed suffering from depression and I thought have I hurt anyone, I said don't think that now and took a diazepam to calm me down, I woke up and began to think about it. I told everyone I could instantly, mum, dad and partner. I thought for around a day I think that I had done something but then I just knew I hadn't but then it turned into something else. I had CBT before at a clinic and the guy just said "they are only thoughts". My mum has suffered exactly the same thing.

Have I... Did I..

Wed Jan 18 2012 0:18:19 #
Mike
Member

Is that all the therapy you have had? In my non-professional opinion, you desperately need ERP therapy. The best way to overcome a fear is by exposure to that fear. You clearly already know that there is no evidence that you hurt someone, and clearly your therapist giving you reassurance didn't make the fear go away. This makes cognitive therapy look not so good in terms of how much it might help you.

What's happening in your mind is that the sheer POSSIBILITY, no matter how small, of you hurting someone is scaring the hell out of you. So the goal of your treatment (as is the goal with all OCD treatment) is to make your feared consequence less scary. I'll assume for the sake of the argument that you don't have anxiety about killing people, or being killed, while driving (if you do, just insert another example of OCD, like religious blasphemy, homosexual fears, contamination, etc.). However, I'm sure that you, being a normal rational person, acknowledges that you COULD kill someone, or be killed yourself, on ANY day at ANY given time, while driving on the road. Yet you don't obsess about this. Given that 1) you acknowledge the possibility and 2) you don't worry about it excessively, this must mean that 3) you accept the possibility that you might kill someone or be killed yourself, and you can live with that possibility.

Accepting and living with the possibility of horrible things happening is part of everyday life. Our brains are designed to do it, and it's a good thing, because we have no choice. There are ALWAYS an infinite number of horrible things that could happen, or could have happened in the past, yet people without OCD (and people with OCD but on different topics) don't obsess about them, and don't get excessive anxiety or depression from these possibilities. So your goal should be (and I know this sounds really scary, but I think above I have shown you the logic behind it) to learn to live with the possibility that you MIGHT have hurt someone in the past. Again, the reason for this being the goal is that this is how your brain works on EVERY topic EXCEPT those that you obsess about, and this is how the brain works in people without OCD. If you don't believe me, think about what I said above about driving, and how 1) and 2) allows us to conclude 3), and I bet you won't disagree.

Now, I truly hope your therapist has tried, or plans to try, ERP therapy with you, because if he/she hasn't even tried, especially after cognitive therapy hasn't worked, then he/she is in conflict with the International Obsessive Compulsive Foundation, the American Psychiatric Association, and the American Psychological Association. I would mention exposure to him/her.

Wed Jan 18 2012 3:25:53 #
Mike
Member

If you'd like to think about it another way, take me for example. I don't have any anxiety about the possibility of me having hurt someone in the past. Is this because I know for a fact that I haven't hurt anyone? Of course not. In fact, I have blacked out from alcohol many times, and I will never know what happened during those episodes. The reason I don't obsess about it is because I accept the possibility that I might have hurt someone in the past, and don't remember it. Since I can ACCEPT this possibility and live with it, it's not scary to me. Right now you can't accept this possibility, and that's why it's scaring you so much. ERP will make it less scary.

Wed Jan 18 2012 3:34:16 #
playthoseblues
Member

Hi Citaloman

It's like you doubt that it's OCD some of the time, however doubt is a huge trick that OCD can play on us. I used to think that it wasn't OCD, and that I was either playing up to it, or just different, but I've just come to accept it.

I also feel lonely Citaloman, and I posted on the forums how I did. Because we're so wrapped up with intrusions we sometimes forget what we're really missing. OCD really took away my social life, so I'm trying to get it back.

If you're going to your therapist tommorow, tell them everything, because they get paid to help you, and I often find after letting it all out, I can feel much better.

You're a great help around here and always offer others advice

Stay Safe

Jon

Wed Jan 18 2012 7:41:22 #
Citaloman
Member

Mike I know you are trying to help mate but this idea scares me livid. It's my first CBT session today so I will post how it goes.

Wed Jan 18 2012 9:19:42 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hi Citaloman -

here's wishing you all the best with your CBT work. Please keep us updated... I am with you in spirit. It can be so awfully hard to deal with those intense feelings of guilt and inadequacy. And with the ugly fantasies that OCD curses us with.

I think the others have already written excellent, emphatic, thoughtful, and compassionate replies, I can only hand out my greatest thanks and compliments to them.

Hang on in there mate, you are so worth it!

We will hear from you, right?

Best, Cuthbert.

Wed Jan 18 2012 12:29:04 #
Wolfen
Member

Hi Citaloman,
I think everyone has summed things up pretty well,in reply to you!
But I'd still like to say Hi,and a few other things................
OK... I'm really sorry for You.
I have suffered terribly with OCD,,,Mostly because I didnt know anything about it! Not one person on this Earth is perfect in their mind or body.
Ocd is like a computer virus in a way,,it worms its way in and before long wrong messages are sent to the wrong places causing more wrong messages and allsorts of Neurological responses! And minor things become terrible,,yes.
I literally used to beat myself up,,as if trying to get some demon out of me,until I was a tearfull mess locked away in a room. " why have I no control over my anxiety, and thought intrusions!!? We just dont. But to start with these thing are just rubbish floating bye in our minds (Like everybodys)and then We just have to Zone in on them and ask ourselves "What are you doing in my mind?" then it is magnified and grows into a vicious circle of thoughts and anxiety...which get worse and worse. Why?... Because We are good people and we try too hard to be perfect,,and this is what makes things stand out so much. Its not your fault at all Its the Human condition. And Yes,,as already put nicely,with other good comments above,,The reason you feel bad is proof that You are a sensitive and caring person. I also agree that Exposure and prevention is So important and You will get advice about this from your counciler or other therapist.
By the way changing tabs can affect you. And I would not drink alcohol or have too much cafiene. or sugar.. I dont think they help me but you may be different? Dont worry about the past,It does'nt really exist.
If You were bad,then You would be doing bad things today,(not that all bad things are bad or your fault) You see, Bad people who do these things do not feel distressed by bad thoughts!..and most probably embrace them and willfully create them.
You Are obviously a very sensitive and caring person,,,I bet you would rescue a spider from the bath,or toilet? (If not dont worry)
Dont worry about the seeing the therapist..This is the start of Somthing very liberating,(if thats the right word)
Take care and read these notes from us all again if you feel like it!
Best regards Wolfen

Wed Jan 18 2012 14:02:59 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi Citaloman. How did the CBT go? It must have been a bit strange being as it was a first time?
Let us know how you're getting on.
Wannabe

Wed Jan 18 2012 21:35:38 #
Mike
Member

Citaloman -

Of course it's scary. If it wasn't scary you wouldn't be obsessing about it. But do you see the logic behind it? Do you see how you accept the possibility of all possible terrible things happening (many of them worse than you having hurt someone), EXCEPT for this one thing?

Why aren't you obsessing and panicking about your favorite loved one being killed, for example? Let's say it's someone you don't live with. The ONLY time you know that they haven't been killed is when you talk to them. You can NEVER be sure that someone isn't breaking into his/her house and hurting them at ANY moment EXCEPT for when you are on the phone with him/her, or physically with him/her. Do you see how this could be an easy target for the OCD? But right now the OCD isn't targeting this, and the fact that you don't worry excessively about this potentially tragic occurrence shows that you accept that it is possible that it could happen. Notice that this does not mean that you would accept it if it DID happen, but only that you accept that it's POSSIBLE.

So again, to overcome your current fears, your goal in therapy should be to learn to accept the POSSIBILITY that you hurt someone in the past. Not accept that you DID IT, only accept that it's POSSIBLE that you did it.

Wed Jan 18 2012 21:49:33 #
Truddles
Member

Mike,

I know that you are well intentioned but the way that you're phrasing things is frightening the life out of some members.

What we have to remember is that we’re a group that aren’t all at the same stage of recovery and some haven't started their recovery as they have only just discovered that they have OCD and are finding it difficult to come to terms with.

Also when someone is panicking you have to choose your words carefully so as not to frighten them further.

Saying to someone when their intrusive thoughts are really bad that there is the possibility that they have done something will only serve to panic them further and perpetuate the OCD. In these circumstances therapists would choose their words with care and yet still deliver the same message. They tend to say that you have to live with uncertainty.

Wed Jan 18 2012 23:19:38 #
Mike
Member

Truddles,

If you think my advice is doing more harm than good, I will tone it down and leave out the details of how OCD and ERP work. I just want to make sure that the people in therapy are aware of the kind of treatment they should be getting, and that if their therapist has not even mentioned ERP then they are not equipped to effectively treat OCD. I fear that this is the case with some of the alleged "CBT" therapists out there.

I hope I have not done any long-term harm, but ERP is supposed to increase anxiety at first. That's how you know you're effectively treating the OCD.

Thu Jan 19 2012 0:45:00 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hi Mike -

I am with Truddles here. I have not the slightest doubt that your intentions are pure and sincere, and compassionate. Thing is: you phrase things too explicit, and also you have the benefit of hindsight, in comparison to Citaloman, who's not even, or only just begun the CBT-route. Your well-meant remark about incompetent CBT-therapists can be frightening to patients who are novices in that field, and inspire new anxieties.

Please don't see this as an attempt to 'put you in your place', so to speak. We are all in the same boat, that's probably the most important motto to bear in mind - gender, age, class, and other distinctions are not important.

You can always PM me, should there be things you're still mulling over - keep that in mind.

Sincerest regards, Cuthbert.

Thu Jan 19 2012 8:56:10 #
Citaloman
Member

I went to CBT yesterday as planned but felt so anxious I was almost sick before and after.

After filling in many forms to do with OCD and also depression. I then had too talk to the therapist about my worries. I told her about my worry and while we talked about it she was calm but using words that made me shake and feel so nervous. I said that this is all I'm worried about and I have accepted that for the rest of my life I would be able to handle new worries. But this is constant.

She then asked me what my main fear was. I don't want to type it as it makes me feel sick.

Anyway the session ended and I drove home feeling very very ill. I then lay down for 3 hours or so just taking it all in.

I finally went to sleep that night and woke up at 3am feeling really weird. I can't describe how. Sort of relieved and also scared.

I asked her does it seem weird that i had to think twice about what I had maybe done. She said what do you think.

Today I feel shaken and still very confused. Still really scared and still fearing the future but it's only been 2 weeks on Fluroxetine and the Citalopram will be leaving my system this week.

I have another session next week.

She told me to relax about and not worry about my future the next 12 weeks as i said I'm worried about not having enough time.

By this I mean living i guess.

Thu Jan 19 2012 11:34:58 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hi Citaloman -

what you did is a great achievement in itself, it deserves a maximum of praise. Now, I never had CBT, so it's very hard for me to say something useful about the approach of your therapist. But it seems a good thing that she trusted you with a bit of responsibility (with asking: 'what do you think?', and by limiting your 'scale of future-related thinking' to 12 weeks). I readily admit that these are frightening issues at first... so it's not embarrassing at all that you have such mixed feelings (relief, anxiety, fright). Moreover, the fact that you are 'in between' two different medications makes things harder for you. But the fluoxetine will kick in eventually. I am totally convinced that things will get brighter for you. You are doing your best, despite those negative sensations that potentially may lead to a more passive attitude - that is a feat to be lauded and applauded.

Now I will hand over this space to others with experience in CBT-therapy. I am sure they will have supportive and useful comments.

Well done, my man!

Cuthbert.

Thu Jan 19 2012 12:34:22 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi Citaloman WELL DONE! A massive well done on getting to your CBT. A massive achievement, which will be leaving you tired I bet! This is the first step of a journey that should make you feel a lot better in the weeks to come.
Yes it will be challenging, but that is what makes it work, and you are on your way at last. I'm just waiting for mine now and we're going through this together. Chat again soon,
Wannabe

Thu Jan 19 2012 19:45:31 #
Mike
Member

Cuthbert -

I appreciate your reply. I think you and Truddles are correct that it is important to recognize the stage at which a person is in, in terms of their anxiety and level of therapy. It seems like Citaloman is way too anxious to even think about doing ERP right now, but I know he'll get there. I hope his therapist is able to effectively use cognitive therapy to put things in perspective for him, and to help him understand how OCD works and how to recognize it when it's acting up.

Thu Jan 19 2012 19:47:31 #
Citaloman
Member

Thankyou for all being so nice. I still feel i dont deserve it though. Can i just ask another question, if you look for answers and you only find tears, is that OCD?

Yesterday has really knocked me about. I worried why my therapist gave me two scenarios.

What if i did
What if i didnt

I wish my fluroxetine would kick in.

Thu Jan 19 2012 20:21:37 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi everyone, Hi Citaloman, it is early days of a really effective treatment... The fluoxetine can take a while too, but it just has to work soon. It took about ten weeks I think before mine worked on my increased dose, but I'm finding some days I'm okay with it now. I'm also on Olanzapine at night, which gives me very vivid dreams, at least I assume it is the medication! I don't have OCD in my dreams, which makes for some pretty wierd thoughts when I'm waking up!
It will be worth it, You are worth it, We are all worth it, I'm trying hard to believe that too, but we are getting there, wherever there is of course!
I don't know the answer to your question save to say that if therapy brings tears, it is a catharsis, when we get to understand where our own OCD has come from. I would be more worried if I just couldn't cry, and let the emotion come out, in the safe environment of being with a therapist...
Wannabe

Thu Jan 19 2012 20:42:24 #
Truddles
Member

Hi Citaloman,

Well done that was a big achievement for you

Thu Jan 19 2012 21:48:59 #