OCD Action

Lauren
Member

Hi,

I have recently posted on the forum about images I get to do with cheating on pupils' coursework, and it has made me think recently, what if it's not OCD that I have but guilt? My now ex boyfriend once said to me, what if you do bad things and then you convince yourself it's OCD when you actually do or these bad things? And this really scared me.

I have actually been honest to my boss and said that doing these recordings made me feel uncomfortable, and i ask her to listen to what i've done, and whilst I think somebody who does bad things wouldn't do this because they wouldn't want to get caught, it is scaring me because I don't know what is true and what is not.

thanks

Sat Jul 16 2011 10:27:45 #
Unregistered

Hi Lauren

Sounds like it's a good thing that your ex is an ex!!! Doesn't exactly sound like the most helpful bloke! He obviously had no understanding of OCD whatsoever so I would try to forget his comments, I don't think he had a clue what he was talking about!

I am no expert but my experience of OCD has been that it basically makes you feel like you could/will do bad things but that doesn't mean that you actually have, it's just thoughts. I agree with you when you say "somebody who does bad things wouldn't do this because they wouldn't want to get caught", it sounds to me like you are putting in a lot of effort to check that you haven't done anything wrong and I certainly don't think someone that was cheating would want to draw that much attention to themselves, they'd be doing all they could to cover it up! I think you are just doubting yourself, simple as that, I found that I was forever doubting myself when I was at my worst with OCD and still do quite frequently, just not so much nowadays.

I can't remember if you'd mentioned before, have you had any CBT?

Sat Jul 16 2011 10:56:31 #
Tess
Member

Hi Lauren
I'm starting to get a bit concerned about you because you keep coming back to the forum with the same fears and nothing we tell you seems to sink in. Are you having any treatment for your OCD? If not then I think you should go and get some help. As for your question, the way you can tell it's OCD and not guilt is that however bad the guilt was it would never keep on at you incessantly in the way that OCD does. This is OCD, pure and simple and you've done nothing to be ashamed of, nor would you - but if you allow the OCD to keep plaguing you constantly it could end up affecting your future. You have the school holidays coming up, use them wisely to get your stress levels down and some help for your OCD.

Sat Jul 16 2011 11:02:49 #
Lauren
Member

Hi,

I have been seeing a private counsellor on and off (sometimes I can't afford it) and I am on 60mg of prozac, but I recently went two weeks without any tablets because I ran out and the doctor wouldn't renew my prescription without me seeing him. I have found a strip of tablets but my next appointment is on 3rd august.

I think I don't trust myself or what people say, not in a horrible way, but I always think "what if they change their mind later on and want to say something different to me? Like everybody I have asked has said that pupils that age would gossip, but what if they don't?

I'm trying to read a few books but they're a bit hard to understand.

Sat Jul 16 2011 11:12:10 #
Unregistered

Tess - you've said that Lauren "keeps coming back to the forum with the same fears and nothing we tell you seems to sink in" but don't you think that's just a typical OCD behaviour?? Goes with the territory kind of thing? When I was feeling worse I would go back over the same worries over and over again, I just thought that was an OCD trait??

Sat Jul 16 2011 11:15:35 #
Unregistered

Lauren - I think doubting yourself and what others say, again, just goes with the territory of having OCD, it did for me anyway! My long suffering boyfriend knows very well about that, i'd ask him something for reassurance purposes but didn't believe what he said anyway!

What books are you reading?

Sat Jul 16 2011 11:19:09 #
Tess
Member

Sorry, I remember now you did tell us previously. Stopping your meds for two weeks isn't a very good idea, you need to reach a therapeutic level, stay on that level for a while and then if you feel well enough and your GP agrees, slowly and gradually reduce the doseage. If you run out then your GP should either give you enough to tide you over until you can get an appointment or give you an emergency slot. Also remember there are several different meds for OCD and if prozac is not helping to ease these thoughts then you could ask to try something else. I think you should ask your GP to arrange for you to go on a waiting list for CBT because paying privately on and off when you can afford it is far from ideal.

Sat Jul 16 2011 11:25:05 #
Tess
Member

PS. Stroudie, yes, I agree entirely with what you say about the OCD trait - getting stuck definitely goes with the territory, but we are in the business of trying to help each other move one step forward and before we can move we need to realise we're stuck and understand what we're dealing with.

Sat Jul 16 2011 11:32:57 #
Unregistered

Tess - I think it might have come across as a little more harsh that you intended that's all, that's the trouble with written conversations, it's really hard to convey tone etc isn't it

Lauren - I agree with Tess, get your GP to get you on a waiting list for CBT, and keep on your meds, stopping suddenly is no good for anyone! I have seen general therapists too but i'd say if you have OCD and have been diagnosed with it then CBT is definitely the way forward. I would just say that if you do get CBT privately in the meantime then just make sure they are experienced in dealing with CBT specifically for OCD. I paid for CBT privately whilst I waited on the NHS waiting list but my private therapist decided to tell me after about 6 sessions (and lots of money!) that she didn't even believe in CBT so she hadn't been doing it! I don't think she had even treated someone with OCD before so it's always best to check to make sure you're getting the best treatment

Sat Jul 16 2011 11:50:34 #
Lauren
Member

Hi,

I am reading a bit of OCD for dummies and a bit of brain lock but the latter is a bit too complicated for me. I saw this test in the dummies book, about how just because you have a thought it doesn't mean it's an action, and what you had to do was put a glass of water infront of you and stare and it and tell yourself "i'm going to knock this glass of water over with my mind" and see that just because you think something it doesn't mean that it happens. Perhaps this is the case with my pupil's recordings? I had a thought/image of doing it, but it doesn't mean I did, and also, as Tess has said to me before it is human nature to gossip and I would surely know by now because it would have got back to people.

I tried to get a prescription but they refused and my waiting time at my doctors is up to a month for a routine appointment. I don't really consider myself worthy to have an emergency appointment because there's nothing physically wrong with me...i'd feel guilty taking an appointment away from somebody else.

Sat Jul 16 2011 12:21:25 #
Unregistered

Sounds awful but you've got to be a bit selfish, you are ill too afterall and being without your medication is not going to help one bit if you're feeling like this.

I read Overcoming Obsessive Compulsive Disorder by David Veale and Rob Willson and I refer to it regularly now. It's easy to understand and i've even bought copies for other OCD suffers I know. I keep saying that i've mentioned it so many times on the forum that I ought to be getting paid for promoting it!

Sat Jul 16 2011 12:45:42 #
BT
Member

Lauren, Stroudie is right, you must insist about the medication. Coming off a high dose of an SSRI suddenly is bad anyway. Regarding the thought, I would still urge you to try saying it doesn't matter anyway. Try a different approach. Because, truly it wouldn't matter, no harm would come to anyone. As for your ex, I agree with Stroudie there, too.

Tess, you said '...but if you allow the OCD to keep plaguing you constantly it could end up affecting your future'. That sounds like the kind of remark I receive from certain family members who are ignorant of how OCD plagues us. Please tell us all how we stop allowing it to do so.

Sat Jul 16 2011 14:19:43 #
Truddles
Member

I tried to get a prescription but they refused and my waiting time at my doctors is up to a month for a routine appointment. I don't really consider myself worthy to have an emergency appointment because there's nothing physically wrong with me...i'd feel guilty taking an appointment away from somebody else.

Repeat prescriptions can only be issued so many times and then you need to see the doctor for your medication to be reviewed and this should be on the page attached to your prescription. Regardless of this if you run out of medication it is classed as an emergency and so you shouldn't feel guilty. Get an emergency appointment. It's not good to stop these sorts of medication and the surgery should be aware of that.

With regards to what Tess wrote
This is OCD, pure and simple and you've done nothing to be ashamed of, nor would you - but if you allow the OCD to keep plaguing you constantly it could end up affecting your future. You have the school holidays coming up, use them wisely to get your stress levels down and some help for your OCD.

It wasn't simply a smart remark that someone ignorant of how OCD affects us would say, she qualified it by saying how to start getting help to stop the OCD.

Lauren go back and have a look at some of your previous threads that you've posted as there were a lot of helpful replies to those posts. Click on the word member under your avatar by one of your posts and this will give you your posting history.

You obviously feel really guilty about this and you shouldn't. You've read a lot of books and say that you find them hard to understand, you're not alone there. Sometimes people need professional help in order to make sense of what is written in them especially if they are really anxious.

Tess is right you do need to reduce your stress levels. You also need to build your confidence and self esteem in order to be able to trust your judgement and not that of the OCD. You also need to stop seeking reassurance, hard I know, but although initially it seems to help it actually perpetuates the OCD by making you think that there was something wrong and that's why you needed the reassurance in the first place. Perpetually seeking reassurance not only can damage relationships but further undermines our confidence making it all the more difficult to deal with the OCD. It also undermines our trust in ourselves and others.

Try to keep yourself occupied with things that you enjoy doing, this will help to boost your confidence.

You hold a responsible position and are an intelligent woman, so keep telling yourself this and don't let the OCD tell you different. Get the GP to refer you for CBT as intermittent therapy doesn't help.

Sat Jul 16 2011 15:26:26 #
Allison
Member

Just read all these comments. You really need to tell your doctor you need an emergency appointment as you are really worthy to have one. I say this knowing exactly how you feel as I too am full of lack of selfworth but we must remember we are entitled to help as much as anyone - just cause you carnt physical see the problem doesnt mean it doesnt hurt any less. Please ring the doctors for more medication. Take care x

Sat Jul 16 2011 15:30:44 #
Ratwomble
Member

Lauren,

Me too. Get an emergency appointment, get drugs, don't stop taking them without a doctor guiding you.

If you have trouble getting an emergency appointment, I have always found that asking for a house call miraculously opens one up......:-)

Sat Jul 16 2011 16:15:47 #
Lauren
Member

That is something I have never considered ha ha! Thanks Ratwomble

BT, I completely understand your reasoning behind saying that it doesn't matter, but it actually would for me because it would be classed as gross professional misconduct in a position of trust. So that's why I am so concerned about it. A lot of the things I have worried about before I could use this approach to, so thank you for this.

I was reading in OCD for dummies and it had this idea, to prove to yourself that thoughts don't necessarily bring on actions. You have to get a glass of water, and sit infront of it. Then you have to say to yourself that you want to knock it over with your thoughts alone, and try again and again, until you see that just because you think something doesn't mean that it happens. perhaps this is what I have, I had the thought, because of what some stupid boy commented on, and I thought it was reality.

Sat Jul 16 2011 17:11:53 #
Unregistered

I can't think of specific examples right now but I know that i've had the same scenario where someone has said something and so I think it has happened in reality, I think it's just a typical OCD trait so please try no to worry and just get your medication and CBT sorted. In the meantime just try to relax and distract yourself if you can

Sat Jul 16 2011 17:58:55 #
Tess
Member

Hi everyone
I've been out this afternoon so haven't kept up with this thread but firstly I want to say if my advice to Lauren sounds harsh I am really sorry because it was not intended that way and I know only too well the nightmare OCD causes and how hard it is to challenge it.
But I am concerned about Lauren because she is in the teaching profession and whilst we with OCD understand only too well that the thoughts of professional misconduct are just that - merely thoughts of a good teacher who could no more behave unprofessionally than fly to the moon unaided, others without personal experience of OCD may not be so understanding. This is why I have urged her to get professional psychiatric help, and Lauren please don't ever think you are not worthy of an emergency appointment. Remember that OCD is classed by the World Health Organisation as one of the top ten most disabling conditions to affect mankind, just because it is unseen by others does not make it any less disabling or you any less worthy than anyone else. Trudy has hit the nail on the head, you need to work on your self esteem and accept that you are every bit as entitled to your GP's time and attention as any of his other patients and assert your rights to have treatment until you are on top of your OCD and not get fobbed off with not being able to get an appointment and running out of meds, that is totally unacceptable with this disorder. This is one of the big problems with OCD, it makes the sufferer feel worthless and allows others to walk over us.
BT, I'm sorry if I sound like someone in your family and I know there is no easy way to stop the thoughts but there are a lot of excellent self help tips on this forum (see the 101 Tips thread for starters). I'm a huge fan of meds too, I know they are far from ideal but they are a damn sight better now than when I was first diagnosed and I think we just have to grab all the support we can get and work through our options until hopefully we find something which really helps. The thoughts will never go completely but they can be reduced in intensity and effect.

Sat Jul 16 2011 18:05:13 #
Lauren
Member

I think what I don't like more than anything is uncertainty. I don't like not knowing whether I've done something, and I need everything to be clear cut and black and white but I know life doesn't work like that.

I usually write down what I can remember, and I ask myself the same questions over and over again, and I still don't know whether the images I have of me doing this recording are true or not!

Sat Jul 16 2011 20:12:19 #
Unregistered

Lauren - I used to do the same things, I promise you. It was in a slightly different way but I had/have massive contamination fears so I needed to know that I was making sure my baby was safe and I used to write down when I put the washing on, what detergent i'd put in and how much and what time the wash finished, just to make sure it was all clean, and that I hadn't just imagined it was clean! I think that writing down what you've done almost feeds the need for certainty. I started getting better when using CBT I stopped myself looking for certainty and just thought that'll do, that's enough. But don't worry, it'll all come with learning about CBT. You've got to look at it positively, there are ways to get you better and as long as you have the support and training to get better then your life can get back to the way it used to be x

Sat Jul 16 2011 21:26:44 #
BT
Member

Lauren, Can you not see that what you wrote to me proves you didn’t help a pupil to cheat?! I KNEW that would be your response. It is because you are such an honest person that this doubt is plaguing you. It’s why it does matter so much. Anyone who is prepared to help a pupil cheat would not give a toss. This is the paradox and what others have been trying to help you see. We cannot guarantee that a pupil who had been helped through a test would brag about it, some might keep it to themselves. I know you want us to say for sure that they would speak out. But, what is clearly obvious to any of us, and I’m sure each would bet the farm, is that you have not done what your OCD is saying.

Truddles, I was not saying that Tess made an ignorant or smart remark. ‘Qualifying it’ by explaining how to get help doesn’t quite undo the ‘damage’, because, as most here know, ‘help’ does not always work. I said that Tess’ wording reminded me of some of my family members who are ignorant of how OCD plagues us. I did not mean to imply that Tess was being ignorant and certainly not ‘smart’. (I’m sure Tess is very intelligent, but I assume you were using ‘smart’ in a derogatory sense). I simply disagree with your view over Tess’ wording. I realize that she has Lauren’s best interests at heart, as we all do. I have a particular issue with ‘allow the OCD’. I have often been told I should not ’allow’ or ‘let’ my thoughts take control. I now react very badly to this advice, because it is often impossible to control an intrusive thought. Yes, some (not all) may be able to resist a cleaning or checking compulsion, but please, Truddles or Tess, explain how we can not ‘allow’ an intrusive thought. We can keep as busy as possible, take the prescribed medication, try the CBT offered etc. But, what then? Does that mean we still should not ‘allow’ the OCD to torment us? And if it does, are we to blame?

I have been told by well-meaning relatives, and the odd professional (odd both in quantity and quirks) that I have allowed my intrusive thoughts to take over my life. I can see, better than any of them, that OCD has ruined my life. But to place the blame firmly at my door, by using words like ‘allow’ (I am sorry but that’s what that word implies) is quite heartless.

Tess, I have read many of your messages and I realise you did not mean to be harsh and that you understand OCD better than most. I am just explaining how that one, simple, word can cause such distress. By the way, I agree that intrusive thoughts can be reduced in intensity with the aid of medication, but, alas, that is not always the case. You also said that the thoughts will never go completely. I disagree - for some they do.

Lauren, we are all individuals, time and time again we realise that by reading replies on this forum. However, to date, I have yet to meet anyone who is helped by asking themselves (or others!) the same questions over and over (as you just wrote you are doing). It actually makes it worse for us. It is so hard to resist doing this, but the best way is not to engage with the thoughts. Don’t analyse them. You know only too well that the more you do, the more vividly you will ‘see’ yourself doing things and false memories become all the stronger. OCD is simply too powerful an adversary to be handled this way. We have to try more subtle approaches!

Sun Jul 17 2011 11:59:00 #
Lauren
Member

BT, I completely understand what you mean about some family members not being understanding, when I was younger I was repeatedly told to 'snap out of it' and once when I was worried I had HIV I was told to go and get a test 'if you're that worried'. I don't think some people understand how it works, it can appear that we're being a bit self-involved, only because it takes up so much of our time, and I suppose from another point of view because they can dismiss thoughts easily they don't understand what it's like for us.

The hardest thing I find to understand is that thoughts do not equate actions. The boy suggested it, and the image/thought appeared once he left, but it doesn't mean I did it. I put far too much importance on my random thoughts. Surely if I had cheated for a pupil I wouldn't be talking about it, i'd be bricking it realising what I had done and trying to keep it quiet?!

I don't think Tess meant any harm in her comment, i didn't get upset by it and it was directed at me originally, I don't want people getting upset over it when we're supposed to be helping each other...

Sun Jul 17 2011 12:16:04 #
BT
Member

Lauren, You are still asking these questions and that approach will NOT work. Reassurance of this kind never works. This will sound cruel, but I know from years of bitter experience that questions like this do not help us.

I am pleased to hear that Tess’ remarks about allowing your OCD to plague you didn’t upset you. I realise she was directing her words at you, but naturally other people reading the threads can take remarks personally. After all, some of us have ‘allowed’ our OCD to take control for thirty years or more.

Sun Jul 17 2011 12:27:12 #
Tess
Member

Hi everyone
BT I'm sorry my use of the word 'allow' has caused you distress and I accept it was a bad choice of words and not really appropriate for what I was trying to say. I just wanted Lauren to understand that OCD has the potential to ruin lives and encourage her to get professional help.

Sun Jul 17 2011 17:49:20 #
tizzkins
Member

Hi all this is one subject that affects me the most when people and friends ask for advice why do some of us give advice with the best of intentions it is sometimes taken not how it was originally meant if you see what i mean. We are all sufferers of the same illness but maybe in different aspects but at the end of the day we are all suffering from the same illness. I feel from previous posts that we all should be fighing for the same team so to say. We may have different ideas of ocd and different degrees of ocd but at the end of the day we are all in the same battle. I sometimes refrain from answering posts as i fear i may upset or say the wrong thing all i want is at the end of the day to help others as much as i can whilst struggling myself its weird really i am suffering so badly at the minute on one hand but on the other i am so desperate to help others.

Liz x

Sun Jul 17 2011 20:45:39 #
Unregistered

I'm sure that once Lauren gets her medication sorted, reads a little more on overcoming OCD or gets some CBT she will be able to see that the questions are reassurance seeking and that safety behaviours won't help her but I guess at this stage she is new to the concept of recovering from OCD? Is that right Lauren?? Once you get the knowledge you need to fight the OCD I am sure you will start to improve, it just sounds like that awful stage before you have the knowledge to determine what is and what isn't OCD

Tue Jul 19 2011 7:15:19 #
Unregistered

Tizzkins - I think you made a really good point, I think it's quite amazing that even though people are struggling themselves they still want to help others. I guess it's just that OCD is such a cruel illness that we don't like to think of anyone else ever going through it! Hope things are a little better for you soon

Tue Jul 19 2011 7:20:19 #
Lauren
Member

Hi Stroudie,

I've been on medication for about 4 years, I had depression first, then I was diagnosed with OCD, have gone up from 20 to 60mg prozac. But nobody ever told me what was reassurance seeking etc, the computerised CBT course I was offered was very basic and I've always asked questions because it's made me feel a bit better for a short while...I do understand what you mean...it is a bad habit to get into, but one I have done for so long, it is difficult to break the cycle, but, I only asked my ocd buddy the same question 3 times today and last week it was about 10 times every day! So it is diminishing a little this subject I am worried about

Tue Jul 19 2011 22:11:29 #
Unregistered

Hi Lauren

You can't expect to know how to fight it yet so don't worry. Hopefully your face to face CBT will give you all the info you need to tackle it.

I used to ask questions for reassurance loads as well, I still have to stop myself doing it now, i'm sure most people with OCD go through that in one way or another. My other half was helping me with rituals and giving reassurance for months before we found out that it was actually making my OCD worse but that's the pain in having to wait for NHS treatment, you are left a bit clueless as to what to do until you get the help you need. I haven't read the books you mentioned but if you want one that's simple to read the one I have is really straight forward x

Wed Jul 20 2011 7:25:45 #