OCD Action

bill
Member

Hi i have been struggling lately with thoughts about 'existence' and these really do disturb me.Has anyone else had thoughts along these lines..
'what if everything isnt real'
'what if im not real'
'why am i in this body'
'why am i not someone else'
'what if ive died'
'what if im still dreaming'
'why do we feel, what are feelings anyway'
'why do i see what i see'
These thoughts mix in with my violent obsession also so i have 2 things going on at the same time e.g 'that person isnt real so it doesnt matter if you hurt them'
There along the lines of that and there also thinking about the universe and these thoughts distress me as i cant possibly answer them, i feel weird and spaced out like im not actually really here.Has anyone else had anything along these lines, obviously i dont believe these thoughts but they scare me as what if i start believing them.I have started CBT and iam starting to do ERP but it is really hard and i wouldnt know where to start with this 'existential' obsession and doing ERP for it.
does anyone have any suggestions or just a bit of advice?
Thankyou.

Sat Nov 12 2011 23:21:05 #
Tess
Member

Hi Bill
Welcome to the forum. I used to have these sort of thoughts as a teenager back in the early 60's, so badly at one time that I sought the help of a Baptist pastor who just looked at me with disbelief and wasn't very helpful. He seemed to think I was getting the thoughts because I was in the throes of an intense first love with a boy who was behaving very irresponsibly and causing me a lot of distress which, looking back now feels like a fairly convenient way of dodging the issues. This was a few years before I became ill with OCD but I suspect these sort of thoughts go through everyone's mind at some stage in their life. Even at Uni we used to have existential discussions about whether we were just figments of each other's imagination but we never took that one step back to discuss where the imagination had come from. I soon learned that I was no figment when I went through the pain of childbirth and that the impregnation had not been a figment either! We all have to live with unanswerable questions in life like where does the universe end and if it does end what's on the other side and OCD does not like uncertainties.
I can't really give you any advice but these sort of thoughts do lesson as you go through life and hopefully that is what will happen for you. It might help you to put yourself into some very real situations, contact sports come to mind or join an organisation where you can share your interests with others.
You can also discuss these thoughts with your CBT therapist and get some professional advice on how to deal with them.

Sun Nov 13 2011 10:33:49 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hiya Bill -

firstly, I second Tess in that nearly everyone experiences these thoughts and fears at one or another point in their lives. My observation is that they occur predominantly in adolescence and young adulthood (when fantasies and anxieties play a huge role: one has left the parental home, is highly curious whether the current love affair is the 'definite' one for life, whether the chosen job/study is the right one, there are financial decisions to be made that have a long-lasting effect, and so on and so on). So in themselves they aren't a sign of a disorder - but I wonder anyway about your age... please don't feel to have to reply to this at all; and if you'd like to do that still, you could always do that via a personal message. Discretion guaranteed, of course.

One more point: I read a book on neuroses by an eminent Dutch psychiatrist/professor, some 25 years ago. I recall that, in describing obsessions and compulsions, he noted that depersonalisation and derealisation are not uncommon in OCD - and those feelings of 'am I real?' and 'is commonsense reality real?' are the symptoms.

Taken together: many people have these thought in some period in their life, and OCD can have them as accompanying phenomena. I would say that CBT and ERP are certainly worth a very serious try. Ruminations can be counteracted with forcing oneself to seek meaningful distractions - studying, writing, watching a good movie or play, playing an instrument, gardening, in brief: everything that drives one to step outside one's own mind and concentrate on something outside. Perhaps sports can be useful too; but in that case I personally would seek my aid in team sports, or table tennis, badminton... as long as there is direct interaction with others. When I go running on my own, I can really withdraw very much into myself (without wanting to).

Well, that is what I can say about it now. I hope you perhaps can put your existential 'mental meanderings' a bit into perspective, and I wish you all good luck in coming to terms with them.

Ciao, Cuthbert in Holland!

Sun Nov 13 2011 12:10:10 #
bill
Member

Thankyou very much for both of your replies!
They have helped me to see im not the only one thinking/feeling like this.
Cuthbert- iam 21 by the way, my therapist did say this is the sort of age people start questioning stuff like their mortality and existence and so on.
I had never questioned this sort of stuff before, im even questioning why i see what i see but i cant seem to question it without getting freaked out by it.I think it definitely started from derealization.
Do people with OCD question stuff like this? have i slipped into some sort of psychosis? even when i look in the mirror i dont feel real i almost feel alien and everything seems alien to me, even my arms feel like there not actually my arms if that makes any sense lol.
Bill

Sun Nov 13 2011 18:57:29 #
Wombat140
Member

I've come across other people with similar worries, and it looked to me as if they'd got OCD and nothing else.
I can confirm you are not making me up

Sun Nov 13 2011 19:37:13 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hiya Bill and Wombat -

cheers for the replies. Bill - 21 is within the age bracket I'd more or less expected. I had the same thoughts then; in my case these could've been very well linked to my OCD (checking, later hoarding also became a problem).

Wombat: I nearly spilled my morning tea... that's such a funny remark!

Bye, Cuthbert.

Mon Nov 14 2011 8:18:28 #
Tess
Member

Hi Bill
Everyone thinks about existence and mortality, they are the massive unknowns in life and most people manage to deal with them either by coming to terms with the fact that death is an inevitable part of life or by shutting it out of their minds because it is too frightening to think about.
OCD does not allow us to shut our biggest worries out of our minds, it torments us with them and if we allow it free rein it will distort them into something alien. I think this is what has happened to you. At a very sensitive age you had to deal with the death of your grandfather who you loved dearly, now a close friend of the family is dying and at the same time you have unfortunately developed OCD. It is believed that people have a predisposition to OCD and life experiences can determine whether or not the OCD will develop. A traumatic event such as the loss of a loved one can trigger OCD and this may be what has happened to you. Now your OCD is causing you to obsess about existence and your own and other's mortality and it is producing thoughts and feelings which are a distortion of your true feelings. It is not evil to wish someone dead if their process of dying is more than your mind can cope with, in fact it is normal for these thoughts to go through people's minds when they are in this sort of situation because death brings a form of emotional release. The difference is that people with OCD can dismiss these thoughts and forget about them, OCD will just keep them going round constantly in your head and it will dictate ways of relieving them. In your case I think your brain is trying to relieve your anxiety by making you feel unreal.
I don't think you have slipped into psychosis, your posts sound as if you are very real and very distressed. Talk all these feelings through with your therapist. You are young, you are getting professional treatment and you have an excellent chance of beating this disorder.

Mon Nov 14 2011 10:58:02 #
Tess
Member

Just reread my post and I meant people without OCD can dismiss their inapppropriate thoughts, sorry.

Mon Nov 14 2011 11:31:54 #
bill
Member

Hi Tess
sorry i havent replied sooner, i'm trying not to come on here much as i dont want it to turn into some sort of addiction .
Thanks for all of your replies and advice it has helped me, i'm just trying to let the thoughts be there and not get involved in them, which seems to be working to some extent, i still have a long way to go but i'll get there!.

Sun Nov 20 2011 13:34:11 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi Bill, I wouldn't worry about coming on here a lot, cos it is part of the facing up to the illness, and learning a great deal about it at the same time... Just knowing we aren't on our own in this is a big help too... It is a sort of owners club like they have for cars and suchlike... We're all learning and sharing, and that just has to be a good thing...
wannabe

Sun Nov 20 2011 13:57:43 #
Tess
Member

Hi Bill
Know what you mean about coming on here being a bit like an addiction. I struggle with this one, I find it hard not to read all the posts, the ones in bold type leer at me - then if I fight it and leave some unread I find I start to lose that feeling of being part of a family. But if coming on here is an obsession at least it's a productive way of spending our time and it might just help someone else. I have learned so much about OCD from being on this forum - it's a good place to be.

Sun Nov 20 2011 18:02:55 #
Unregistered

Hi Bill,

I'm an OCD sufferer, and I can point you in the right direction.

The first thing you need to do is read this book: "Overcoming Depersonalization & Feelings of Unreality", by Dawn Baker, Elaine Hunter, Emma Lawrence, & Anthony David.

Your obsessions (relating to things being real / not real) are quite common. I suffered from exactly the same type of obsessions for several years -- alongside all my other OCD obsessions.

You MUST read this book. It's in the "Overcoming..." series of books, which is a series of books that looks at a range of different mental health disorders, including OCD, using Cognitive Behavioural Therapy techniques.

There is a department devoted to your problem: it's the Depersonalisation Research Unit at the Institute of Psychiatry and Maudsley Hospital, London.

The writers of the book are linked to that specialist unit -- a unit which deals specifically with your obsessions.

Depersonalization and Feelings of Unreality (known as "DPAFU"!) is a common experience -- I suffered from it for years...without ever knowing that!

It is separate to, but interlinked with, your OCD.

Speak to your CBT therapist about the book, and ask your therapist what they know about this condition. (They may not know anything about it; or they may be an expert. You won't know until you ask them.)

You may need to get referred to the specialist unit for a further course of CBT, after you finish your course of CBT for your OCD. Speak to your therapist about whether or not they think this would be a good idea.

All the best,

OCD Londoner.

Sun Nov 20 2011 20:37:24 #
bill
Member

Thanks everyone for your replies and advice!
And OCD Londoner I have just ordered that book thankyou very much for your advice.Is there any websites with any good advice on Depersonalization? as i cant seem to find one, just ones with what everyone else is going through and it sort of puts things in my head.
Bill

Tue Nov 22 2011 16:57:03 #
Unregistered

Hi Bill,

I've read that book - "Overcoming Depersonalization and Feelings of Unreality". It's really good. I thought I was the only person who had this obsession, till I read it!

Apparently it's really common. You feel things like: am I real?; could this all be a dream?; I feel like a robot; or Why aren't I enjoying my life any more?

I don't know if there's a website, but there is a specialist unit -- so they must have a website, for people who want to get referred there.

Harrison.

Tue Nov 22 2011 18:49:45 #