OCD Action

Wombat140
Member

I've never taken SSRIs myself, but I've noticed that people quite often say, here and in other places, that when they tried taking them their intrusive thoughts got much worse. I seem to remember somebody saying that they didn't even get intrusive thoughts except when they were taking SSRIs. What is your experience of this?
It might be interesting to know more about this, as so little is currently known about the mechanism of OCD. If such a specific effect exists, it might be possible for somebody to investigate how it works and thus shed some light on how OCD works.
Yours curiously,
Wombat140

Wed Jun 10 2009 20:30:57 #
brennie
Member

Wombat, i have tried various medications over many years and i feel that the only one that has helped me to cope with life as it is is Prozac.
How are you today hun

love brennie x

Thu Jun 11 2009 13:34:49 #
bordergirl
Member

Hi

I had very effective treatment on sertraline which helped to lift my state of anxiety and mood without effecting my daily life.

Bordergirlx

Mon Jun 15 2009 10:58:36 #
Wombat140
Member

Did either of you have intrusive thoughts specifically? "Pure O OCD" type of thing. I know some people find some SSRIs helpful for OCD generally, but there seems to be a special issue with Pure O. Some people find that SSRIs help with any "typical" OCD they have, but at the same time make intrusive thoughts much worse. On the other hand some people find that SSRIs help with intrusive thoughts as well, and some find they make things worse for the first few weeks and then better. I think SSRIs must be one of the most variable medications there are, nothing seems to be guaranteed. Every single effect of them varies from person to person.

I've had an attack of intrusive thoughts myself over the last few days, that's why I haven't been on the Net for a bit in case it made matters worse. I'm OK now though.

All the best,
Wombat140

Mon Jun 15 2009 18:18:39 #
bordergirl
Member

Hi Wombat

I only had intrusive thoughts with my OCD and never carried out rituals. The sertraline did help to relax me and remove the thoughts. My counsellor said that OCD ruminations and anxiety are closely linked and it all becomes a vicious circle. I think the sertraline made me less anxious which in turn lowered my inclination to have ruminations.

Apparently:-

ANXIETY = RUMINATIONS = PANIC = DEPRESSION

Ithink the awful thoughts we have lead us into a hightened nervous state which leads to a fight or flight response and means we sleep less, cant eat properly and so it spirals. It is important to try and remove the anxiety in your life which will help to diminish the obsessive thoughts.

There is a wonderful book called HOW TO AVOID A NERVOUS BREAKDOWN which is really helpful as it explains the biology of our nervous system and how we work as human beings and it teaches you to break the cycle. Its the best book I have read even though it isnt primarily about OCD.

I once filled in a questionaire about the type of thoughts I have, I filled it in and waited for them to tell me that I was a total fruitcake and was probably a danger to society and needed to be in an institution. They came back saying that every person who had filled in the questionaire 80% without OCD and 20% with had all ticked the same amount of boxes and each one had at some time experienced unwanted thoughts. This begs the question what turns simple unwanted thoughts into full blown OCD and I believe it is the persons sensitivity. I once asked my husband had he ever had bad thoughts he said "all the time but I just ignore them". I think that I found the thoughts to horrific rather than brush the first ones out of my mind I had a nervous response and then began a vicious circle. I have only now got the ability to break this cycle.

Hope this helps

Bordergirl.x

Tue Jun 16 2009 10:20:41 #
Marie
Member

Hello Wombat
From experience when i have started taking a new med the thoughts can become worse. I take Lustral and the thoughts are still with me but i dont take mi=uch notice of them but then agin sometimes i do.I dont think there is a med that can take the thoughts away if there was i would pay whatever price for it !
Jane

Wed Jun 17 2009 15:55:43 #
jon
Member

When I went on Prozac first my OCD got worse. I put this down to the fact that I had allowed myself to believe that the meds would somehow magically take care of the OCD, and so I let my guard down. I lhave earned that you so have to be on your guard against this thing all the time. Incidentially I am just today back on Prozac after a break of almost a year. Oh Well!:(

Fri Jun 19 2009 13:57:23 #
jon
Member

...and I cant even attach a sad face properly, so here's a happy one!

Fri Jun 19 2009 14:00:46 #
wasnotwas
Member

medication, on starting, can increase anxiety/ intrusive thoughts, in the first few days, and or couple of weeks, and if it doesnt settle,
it would be advisable to chat with your gp, if it becomes bothersome, and he should closley monitor you too.

take the pure o hat off, ocd is ocd.

Sat Jun 20 2009 23:11:00 #
Wombat140
Member

Wasnotwas, please don't start on that. I know Pure O is a type of OCD same as any other, but it exists, and it is sometimes useful to have a name to refer to it by. I can't see what is wrong with this. I could say "Pure O OCD" if people think it would be more accurate.
I've never taken medication myself, by the way.
Hope Jon finds his helpful.
Wombat140

Mon Jun 22 2009 19:51:31 #
wasnotwas
Member

yep, but whether you have pure o or ocd, the meds would effect both types of ocd, in the same way/

wsw

Tue Jun 23 2009 11:46:49 #
jon
Member

Actually there are two good articles on "Pure O" on a site I mentioned to Arran earlier "www.ocdonline.com/articlesphillipson.php" Thinking the Unthinkable & "Rethinking the Unthinkable".

Wombat 140, I've actually stopped taking the meds again - I know that's crazy having just started - but you see I was fighting a strong compulsive urge for several months and it was causing me severe anxiety/depression so I went on the meds. A few days later I gave in to the urge and carried out the compulsion, and so now no depression therefore no meds required. But I am not elated - quite sad really because it feels like a backward step and I have just set myself up for even more pain down the line.

Tue Jun 23 2009 14:43:04 #
Unregistered

Wombat, I wonder how many of the people you read about (whose intrusive thoughts worsened) stuck with the SSRIs and whether they improved after time? The first few weeks on an SSRI are not usually an indication of how we will respond long-term.

I have been reading a new book on OCD and, of the few case histories within it, more people responded to Prozac than any other SSRI. However, it was a small group and not a scientific study. I know of one psychiatrist who says Prozac is useless in treating OCD and another who prescribes it as his drug of choice!

I was more anxious for a while when taking two SSRIs (not simultaneously) but the anxiety did improve. I found that with both my intrusive thoughts, and later with contamination fears, I became more stressed initially because my mind was less focused and clear. With intrusive thoughts I actually panicked when one 'slipped away' before I had a chance to fully comprehend what it was. There was then the compulsion to retrieve it and analyse whether or not it was indeed worth worrying about! I even carried a notepad around with me, so that I could jot down each unpleasant thought before it disappeared! Often I couldn't recall what a thought was, it was so fleeting or vague, and paradoxically this caused great anxiety. With contamination fears I was less sure of what I had done, what contamination I might have touched or spread around. But, after time, the drugs did lessen the OCD symptoms.

Wed Jun 24 2009 13:35:01 #
Unregistered

P.S. Many people despair that little research is being done into the causes of OCD. This is not the case and some scientists are very positive that their research is getting close to an answer.

Wed Jun 24 2009 13:39:13 #
Wombat140
Member

yep, but whether you have pure o or ocd, the meds would effect both types of ocd, in the same way

That's just what I'm saying Wasnotwas - for some reason they don't. It seems they sometimes help with "normal" obsessions, linked to compulsions, while increasing free-standing intrusive thoughts. But it appears that this varies as wildly as any other effect of SSRIs.

There was definitely one person ([url:iq74o5xt]http://www.ocdtruth.com/[/url:iq74o5xt] - chapter 2) who carried on taking SSRIs for 3 months, but they still made things worse so he stopped taking them.

Thanks to everybody for their information.
Wombat140

Thu Jun 25 2009 17:47:04 #
brennie
Member

Wombat, i have been told only this week at my local hospital that no ssri's can make any significant benefits to ocd, they can help depression and anxiety but ocd is difficult to treat by medication alone, the only thing that helps OCD is cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT ).

LOVE BRENNIE X

Thu Jun 25 2009 23:56:42 #
wasnotwas
Member

very true brennie, the idea of meds, is they act as waterwings, and enable people to go into cbt afloat, so to speak.

Its also, important, that when starting cbt, that there isnt any med changes/increases, in the last 2 months, and that the patient
is settled.

wsw

Fri Jun 26 2009 8:02:56 #
Unregistered

SSRIs do nothing for some, make only a slight to moderate difference to others, which is enough to help them face CBT, but the fact is that there are people who are significantly helped. I have a friend who tries to stop her Prozac every few years, because she is able to cope whilst she's on it and so feels she's well enough to stop. She's a professional lady with a very busy life, but without her SSRI her OCD becomes unmanageable. One lady I know found her intrusive thoughts stopped whilst on Prozac, CBT had done nothing for them. I think most experts appreciate that there is so much we still don't understand about the brain and its chemistry. But, what is clear is that some people are significantly helped by SSRIs.

I know that pure 'O' can be helped by SSRIs, I have friends who have responded very well who suffer intrusive thoughts. It can also help other OCD symptoms. Why it varies so much may well remain a mystery. Why did my hair fall out whilst on Prozac, no-one else I know experienced this! As we are aware, even physical side-effects differ greatly.

My own intrusive thoughts were helped by Clomipramine (an older SRI), but sadly the effects wore off after a few years. This is another argument, even amongst experts, whether or not the effects lessen over years. Some are adamant that SRIs and SSRis will continue to give benefit, others argue that some people appear to build up a tolerance and the effects do indeed lessen. I think the latter is correct. For some the effects are lasting, for others they need a higher does after time and eventually the drug may not work at all.

Fri Jun 26 2009 12:48:09 #
Unregistered

P.S. I was thinking about Wasnotwas' message and his comment about 'waterwings'. I know Professor Schwartz uses this analogy for SSRIs. However, according to a friend of mine who attends all the OCFoundation conferences in America, Professor Schwartz (a regular speaker) appears to be changing his mind on drug treatment, he now seems to think medication has a more long-term role to play in the treatment of OCD. I suppose you could say he views them now more like lifejackets!

Another psychiatrist told a friend to accept she has a chemical imbalance and remain on Prozac for life, he has told her more than once that if she were diabetic she wouldn't keep trying to come off insulin when her diabetes was under control. He feels that treating OCD is no different. Again, experts would differ over this view as they do with CBT and everything else. I suppose whilst the experts argue, it's going to be difficult for us to agree on the best form of treatment! Maybe it's a case of trial and error for each of us, because we don't all respond in the same way to drugs, CBT or anything else.

Fri Jun 26 2009 14:15:42 #