OCD Action

Tess
Member

I've heard that recent research suggests that people who's OCD revolves around having to keep checking plugs and sockets may have a problem with the connection between the part of the brain that controls thoughts and that which deals with visual imaging.
This has led me to wonder if there might be a similar problem in some forms of contamination OCD with the sense of touch. Recent discussion on the forum about touching cup handles has made me realise that my own OCD is very much related to touching things. It is as though something triggers in my mind each time I go to touch something warning me that it is not safe. Yet this does not explain why it is only really debilitating when I am inside my home, I can garden and handle soil and worms with bare hands without it triggering.
One of the members of our support group obviously has big problems with touch - his hands are almost permanently clenched so that his fingers can't touch anything and he has to go through lengthy rituals of patting and touching his clothing before he can wear it and it takes him up to two hours to get down the stairs because of this need to touch until it feels safe.
Am I thinking along the right lines here or not?

Sat Oct 22 2011 10:02:10 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hiya Tess -

thank you for a compelling post. My form of OCD relates to what you describe about checking and seeing whether something's right. It's a bit like inserting a coin in a coffee machine, only to get it returned numerous times - and only at the 10th or 15th attempt, it 'drops' and I get my coffee, finally. What we do know is that people with OCD may perform less well in so called 'visuo-spatial tasks', which are presented to them in the field of neuropsychology, usually. These tasks are often about perception and decision-making. Also, the research group of Garibotto et al (2010) found striking alterations in white brain matter of patients (also called myelin, it isolates nerve tracts so that signaling is much faster and consumes much less energy). The white matter in their experiment was vital in connecting frontal brain parts to areas that are important in visual interpretation.

I am fascinated by your description of the 'touching' problem. At least it seems certain that there is a strong analogy. Where a checker/starer must repeat his control measure numerous times before the coin drops right, a checker/toucher has to have tactile contact many times before that feeling of 'it is finally right, gasp!' is there. At the moment I wonder if and how the somatosensory part of our brain is involved, i.e. were various body parts are represented, so also our hands and their tactile impressions. I find this highly intriguing, and will do specific literature research on this.

Now, why can you do gardening without those compulsions? My bet, and I am talking from my particular experience: OCD can be seen as evolutionary advantages grown out of all proportion, so that they've become disadvantages. Checking is good, it serves to protect your own territory, you make sure that nothing can go wrong when you're away, and that no one can enter your house. Hoarding can be interpreted as saving things for times of need and want (like animals do with their foodstuffs). Washing means: hygiene. Ordering and symmetry can be important to quickly find materials back when you need them in emergencies. Religious and sexual obsessions may be looked at as normal societal forms of shame, but gone hopelessly out of control.

Sometime ago I wrote: we are perfectly normal, abnormally so. I hope it's clear what I meant by that...

I had the same phenomenon as you do: the excess checking and staring happened only in my apartment. Not with other activities outside of it. I think that this discrepancy can be explained with the need for a safe territory of your own, and the ones you love, which is in line with evolution itself.

See: if I had had my checking compulsions outside my own four walls too, I would never ever been able to cycle to the center of town, because I would have had to check the first traffic light so intensely and long, that it would have gone red way before I'd been able to say to myself: it's really, really green now, Cuthbert...

What a disorder, hey?

Cheers and all the best, Cuthbert.

Sat Oct 22 2011 10:40:39 #
Tess
Member

Hi Cuthbert
Thanks so much for replying - I was hoping you would because your posts always seem to bring sense and reason into the absurd and what you are saying makes so much sense to me. Mind you I do know of someone who has to read every word of every road sign they go past which makes driving any distance impossible - as you say - what a disorder!

Sat Oct 22 2011 17:25:49 #
goldenseal
Member

That's very interesting but with me my contamination fears are all to protect me from being sick and although a lot of it is inside the home with checking tins aren't dented, making sure hands are clean, kitchen and bathroom hygeine etc, I am more anxious outside the home due to catching germs resulting in not being able to use public toilets or eat or drink out. I don't like touching door handles etc outside the home but I'm equally as worried about breathing in germs.

Also the worrying things about my OCD is the longer I've had it the worse it's got in some respects because the initial phobia of being sick that caused me to get OCD (when I was sick for the 1st time in my life at 32) caused me to limit my food intake and variety so I have such a limited range of foods I now also fear having an allergic reaction to eating something different or I also worry about having one to something I eat too much (like when you can develop a sensitivity to something you eat a lot of)

It is so complex I can be doing better in one aspect of my OCD while doing worse in another. If I eat something I feel may not be perfect then I've faced a fear and not avoided it but I will worry for about a week and eat less during that time in case I'm sick, so facing the fear makes me eat worse for a week, other times I avoid things I'm not happy with just so I have less stress. When going through other life stresses it makes the OCD worse and I avoid more and check more just to eliminate more stress that I may be sick or have an allergic reaction.

I have often thought "I wish you didn't have to eat to live because life would be so much easier for me!" I worry about not eating properly and want to eat better.

Everyone is different I guess but I'm interested to know what started the OCD in other people that have contamination fears and if they're not afraid of being sick what is their fear?

Also other emectophobia suffers like me, did you get emectophobia after being sick for the 1st time in your life like I did?

Sat Oct 22 2011 17:26:56 #
Tess
Member

Incidentally Cuthbert your theory about evolutionary advantages growing out of all proportion so that they become disadvantages fits in well with the fact that when the generation immediately below me die out OCD will have brought a full stop to my entire family line going back several generations.

Sat Oct 22 2011 17:36:19 #
Cuthbert ffoliott
Moderator

Hi Goldenseal and Tess -

those are interesting posts the both of you wrote.

To Goldenseal: I am happy to accept any type of information that's not entirely in line with what I contributed - that's the only way to avoid sticking to dogma, and learn new things. So, please don't think that I try to 'bend' your info a bit to make it 'fit' my theory. For the moment I guess that in your case, the need to feel healthy and clean overrules all other considerations, including the need to only apply OCD behaviour to one's own territory.

I wonder: did you try some form of cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT)? I could imagine someone helping you very gradually with getting used again to a wider variety of food... gradually, because stress in itself can elicit autoimmune and allergy-type of reactions. At any rate, thank you for being so candid about your form of OCD.

To Tess -

thanks for the info too. That story of a person having to read every word of every road sign again seems to point to the role of the visual system in OCD. People without OCD recognize familiar road signs in the wink of an eye, and trust their perception. But in your example, it is as if that person has too little faith in his/her own ability to visually recognize, so to speak, and as a result has to read everything every time anew. Reminds me of my own checking rituals, one would expect that sheer experience alone would shorten the time necessary to perform the compulsions over the years - which it didn't.

And Tess, I am saddened by your last observation (about a family line coming to an end)... again proof, IMHO, that so many outsiders don't really understand or comprehend the gravity of OCD.

Still: have a wonderful day, the both of you, best from:

Cuthbert in Holland.

Sun Oct 23 2011 10:16:21 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi Tess, Cuthbert and goldenseal... Yes, my contamination fears do have a lot to do with touch... If I brush against someone in a shop, or my hand just contacts anything, my mind triggers... I'm either contaminated by the thing I've just touched, or I've just contaminated it... I cannot win in these circumstances... The slightest touch of anything sets my triggers off, from cup handles, door knobs, anything... Even shopping trolleys cause a problem... And I worry about going through supermarket checkouts, cos they handle everything we buy, so it's all contaminated by the checkout operator, cross contaminated too, So I'll sometimes look to see what the person in front of me is buying, I absolutely hate it if they have raw meat or anything like that... It really freaks me out...
My OCD comes largely from food hygiene rules and things like that, that I used to be involved with in previous work experiences... I really struggle something terrible in the kitchen...
wannabe

Sun Oct 23 2011 13:14:57 #
Tess
Member

Hi goldenseal
My OCD came on so slowly and gradually that I cannot pinpoint when or why it started. It was around the time of some major changes in my life - from being a full time Uni student suddenly pitched into marriage and a complete change of lifestyle, then pregnacy and a house move to a new area where I didn't know anyone and became very lonely and isolated and then a very difficult and traumatic birth. I don't know whether these were factors or not, OCD onset in pregnancy is believed to affect up to 2% of new mothers and is thought to relate to the overwhelming feelings of responsibilty for the baby - but it could just have been that my biological time clock clicked over into OCD mode. My son developed OCD at about the same age as me and the only change to his life was moving to a different Uni to study for a PhD so my money is on the biological clock theory to explain my own OCD.
Our family seem to suffer a form of OCD which responds to medication but is resistant to other forms of therapy. It would be interesting and quite possibly helpful to know whether there is a relationship between speed of onset of the disorder and response to treatment.

Sun Oct 23 2011 16:56:19 #
goldenseal
Member

Hi everyone,

Cuthbert, it's very interesting what you said about stress and allergic reactions, I think it could be part of my problem as I know how powerful the mind can be and how it affects the body; if I'm more stressed with life I get more anxious about eating and focus on how my throat and mouth feels and I keep thinking I'm having a reaction.

I seee a kinesiologist who muscle tests me for food sensitivity sometimes and I still get afraid because sometimes I have sensitivities and sometiems I don't so stress must play a big part in that. I am working on all my problems with her as well as my homeopath.

I have tried CBT briefly myself at home and also saw a psychiatrist but she was focusing on stuff to do with being sick and it put me off my food and I lost weight so I stopped going as I am very underweight.

I also remember reading about a person that had some kind of multiple personality disorder, I'm not sure if it was schizophrenia or not but when the person was 1 personality she wasn't allergic to a certain food then when she changed and became the other personality she was allergic to that food!

Wannabe, I am also freaked out by raw meat and chicken, I always put it in a poly bag from the veg section when it's in my shopping basket to make sure it doesn't leak and contaminate the rest of the shopping and when cooking chicken I have to make sure I clean well after and I use plastic gloves too. I also have the food hygeine certificate as I had to do it when I applied for a job in a supermarket (but I didn't take the job)I also struggle in the kitchen, I hate anyone near my food and I hate anyone else preparing my food but I've had to let others do that while I've had a thumb injury and it's still affecting me so I can't do quite a lot of stuff still as I lost strength and muscle tissue.

Tess, it is interesting that your OCD came on gradually and at major changes in your life,also the pregnancy, my stepdaughter also got OCD after her 1st child. (We've never lived together so it's not like she "learnt" it from me as she was grown up when I married her dad)

Although mine started after being sick I also had an overload of stress with work and work changes also being away from friends as I had moved 5 years before it occured but never felt like I belonged here & I missed my friends, I think if they'd been around me it may not have developed after I was sick.

Anotehr theory I have is that I rad once that having Streptacocci (strep throat and its complictions) can cause OCD - I had that when I was a teenager and it spread so I had spots all over and swollen feet as well as a sore throat
I wonder if having that makes you more likely to get OCD if a trigger such as stress and my being sick then occurs later in life?

Also the question of heredatory as Tess mentioned. My grandad was slightly obsessive and I lived with my parents and grandparents in the same house till I was 12 so maybe his habits rubbed off on me a bit? My mum is also an anxious person. It seems to be on that side of the family; I wish i took after dad, he never worries about anything!

Mon Oct 24 2011 19:18:14 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi goldenseal... I don't know of anyone else in my family with OCD, so I'm not sure why I've been singled out for it, although they all had various types of anxieties and worries, depression was quite prevalent I believe too, I tend to think that OCD is underpinned by generalised anxiety, which is an awful thing to cope with, certainly in my case... I'm hopeful that I've not passed it down to my relatives, cos they live with the condition through me, so to speak...
wannabe

Mon Oct 24 2011 21:02:39 #
jon
Member

Interesting thread guys, I think stress is a huge factor in exacerbating my OCD, which is a pity, because at work I actually like a bit of pressure and a challenge - but OCD just moves in and undermines it all. All my life's experience I would like to bring to bear, but I am reduced to a snivelling wreck by this curse.

Goldenseal, I remember reading about Strep throat previously and its possible links to OCD, but then I thought I read somewhere else that studies had shown that there was no link. Others may enlighten me.

Tue Oct 25 2011 4:06:18 #
goldenseal
Member

Hi everyone,

I agree Wannabe and Jon, it does seem to occur in people who are anxiety prone, and occurs after major life changes and stresses by what Tess said; that seems to be a common denominator, and stress makes it worse. I'm not sure if the strep throat theory is true or not either Jon but I remember reading it ages ago.

Tue Oct 25 2011 19:01:26 #
wendybpool
Member

Oh my god I thought I was the only person scared of checkout assistants. It takes me ages to choose a "suitable" checkout assistant that looks healthy enough for me, to as comfortably as possible, let them touch my produce. I avoid all teenage and young checkout assistants as most probably they lead a promiscous lifestyle and therefore are more likely to have STDs. I ALWAYS make sure that the checkout assistant doesn't have a coldsore and then after I have found a checkout assistant that does meet my approval, I need to approve of the other customers in the queue at the checkout in question.

What I hate with a complete passion is when I'm told which checkout I have to use, as my local Tescos does. They like to send you to the checkout with the least customers which is logical but I don't work that way. I always tell the person who is trying to herd me to the near empty checkout that I won't change queues and that I am happy where I am. You should see the look on their faces.

I do love the self service tills. They are such a god send!!!

Mon Oct 31 2011 16:30:40 #
Tess
Member

I dread the army cadets and scouts etc who stand at the end of the checkout waiting to pack your shopping. I always tell them politely that I have to pack it in a certain way so that it will fit into the car and then pop a coin in their tin with a smile which seems to satisfy them.

Mon Oct 31 2011 17:39:38 #
David
Member

Interesting thread. Going back a few posts to Cuthbert and Tess's post about evolution and evolutionary psychology. There was a search for a 'gay gene' or brain abnormalities and chemical imbalances; as well as behavioural treatments for homosexuality when it was defined as a mental illness. Surely the fact that homosexuality and OCD have not become extinct challenge this form of social Darwinism? You can find a functional explanation (the basis for evolutionary psychology) for everything i.e. a present behaviour was useful to early humankind but can/has become maladaptive. Years ago I remember a man who every evening came to the centre where I worked and repeatedly knocked his head against the glass entrance. I was told that there was nothing anybody could and to look at his head - there was a scar where he had leucotomy - a surgical scission of the white association fibres between the fronal lobes and the thalamus. That was backed by neuropsychological evidence about the cases of psychotic illness at the time.

Mon Oct 31 2011 18:30:32 #
wannabefree
Member

Hi again, yes, I'm very careful of the conveyor belt... Anything wet and I avoid it, except in Iceland where I'm assured that it is just water from the ice in the freezers... If someone in front has anything to do with raw chicken, and I avoid the queue in that line...
And yet, the checkout operators don't get ill do they? Or do they? There's never enough in our supermarkets... Mind you, I think that's more to do with staff taking breaks on a minimum staffing level...
wannabe

Mon Oct 31 2011 19:39:02 #
wendybpool
Member

Oh my god I remember this one time that I was at a supermarket and as I was just about to unpack my shopping when I noticed a HUGE streak of blood on the converyor belt. I just completely freaked out and left all my shopping. Just thinking about that incident still makes me shudder.

Mon Oct 31 2011 22:30:02 #
Tess
Member

Hi everyone
Going back to David's post here and I'm sorry to say David that my family line will become extinct after the demise of the next generation and that is entirely down to OCD and other co-morbid mental health disorders. Whether this proves a point or not only time will tell because at present we are working on theories and not facts - as regards both evolution and causes of OCD.

Tue Nov 1 2011 9:50:17 #