OCD Action

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I was searching for something online and stumbled across Charles Linden’s site. I read the following “But, love is a form of what you would call OCD…”

That reminded me of something I was discussing with a friend, only last night. Dr Frank Tallis (clinical psychologist) was discussing falling in love when speaking about OCD, on the radio, a couple of years ago. After hearing the radio programme, another friend, who does not have OCD, commented that the condition doesn’t sound that bad after all. The reason she made that statement was because of Dr Tallis’ remarks. As he was discussing OCD he stated that most people have a very direct experience of obsessionality when they fall in love.

The obsessionality experienced when in love cannot in any way compare with the hell we endure with our OCD. I understand that a person in love may have difficulty thinking of anything other than their partner. The length of time taken up in such thought is indeed comparable with ours. However, there any similarity ends, because one is giving pleasure while the other is causing pain.

Dr Tallis also remarked that the principal forms of OCD are checking and washing. He added that checking is pathological doubting over past actions whilst washing is to do with contamination fears. I have to say that my contamination fears are also controlled by pathological doubt (i.e. have I washed enough, am I really clean, will I pass the contamination on to others?). Isn’t all OCD pathological doubting?!

I do not agree that the principal forms of OCD are contamination and checking. Although I accept that as sufferers we play a role in hiding the true statistics, by remaining quite secretive over many symptoms where we feel more guilt and shame.

Do the experts really understand us and what we are suffering?!

Mon May 17 2010 14:20:47 #
poppyfields
Member

Hi Tricia. I too bumped into this Linden Method and read that and thought WHAT? falling in love is nice and warm and lovely and the thoughts of the person you're falling in love with fill your mind with pleasure and excitement. How can that be compared with what we go through 24/7 ????? I'm begining to agree with you - what is it with the experts.....grrrr

Mon May 17 2010 18:08:16 #
Unregistered

I agee with you Tricia, what this guy is talking about sounds like aload of old crap ://

x

Mon May 17 2010 23:35:36 #
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I guess I shouldn’t be tarring all ‘experts’ with the same brush! I think many understand our pain as much as it is humanely possible to understand something you’ve never had first-hand experience of. I have even met professionals who are more tolerant of our individual problems than we, as sufferers, are with each other!

Dr Judith Rapoport certainly seems to have empathy, although she admits in her early years as a psychiatrist she viewed OCD very differently. But she can hardly be blamed for that. OCD was viewed differently by the psychiatric profession in general, certainly in my childhood and teenage years. Judith Rapoport wrote about OCD tests and scales. She stated that no matter how much a person ‘scores’, if he or she is living in psychological comfort, it’s not OCD.

A psychotherapist once told me that he is obsessional in some ways, he gave the example of his 'obsession' with Formula 1. I immediately lost faith in him as a therapist.

I wrote on my other thread, about intrusive sexual thoughts, that the public is not going to change its common use of the word ‘obsession’, so maybe we need to change the name of our condition. The term ‘anankastic’ used to be used for those with an obsessional personality, but I don’t know what word could replace ‘obsession’ which would convey the correct meaning without connotations of pleasure.

In actual fact, the word has been hijacked, because its original definition, from the Latin, meant to besiege and that quite accurately describes what an obsession is doing to our minds.

Psychologists say that the word ‘obsession’ is used incorrectly by the public. They should actually be referring to an ‘addiction’. But, I really can’t see it becoming commonplace to describe a person as addicted to another or addicted to football or F1.

That means our suffering of intrusive thoughts and fears could be confused with ‘obsessions’ which offer pleasure and not pain. This is particularly distressing for those with sexual obsessions. So often people refer to a person who is ‘obsessed’ with another or ‘obsessed’ with sex. Of course, they should say ‘addicted’, but few are going to!

An addict might eventually find himself in as much pain as us, but initially he is gaining pleasure from his drug habit, drinking, gambling etc. The same could be said for love really, couldn’t it!! I’m sorry for sounding cynical, it doesn’t always end painfully, I know.

Tue May 18 2010 13:56:58 #
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P.S. I meant to ask, has anyone had any success with Charles Linden's method?

Mon May 24 2010 13:11:02 #
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There is a very great difference between what some psychologists call 'normal obsessions', which they think are very common, and obsessional thoughts when you are fighting just to be in your own head. I do not think people who havent experienced the difference understand it. I used to call these thoughts loud worries before I had any idea that they were obsessional thoughts, although loud fears would perhaps have been more appropriate. I get 'normal obsessional thoughts' too, which come but can be dismissed, and I am afraid they will turn into real obsessional thoughts which cannot.

Mon May 24 2010 15:00:58 #
Truddles
Member

If he thinks being in love is like OCD all I can say is he's not grasped the concept of being in love

Mon May 24 2010 16:24:48 #
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Or is it because he doesn't understand the actual pain of OCD, Trudy?! Many professionals don’t.

Lil, If psychologists are referring to ’normal obsessions’ then we really have no hope of reclaiming the word to define accurately what we are experiencing! No true obsession is anything other than awful. I like your term ‘loud fears’.

I don't suppose the word 'obsession' will ever be replaced by something which gives a better understanding of what we are experiencing. I appreciate that the correct definition of 'obsession' does quite accurately describe our thoughts, but, as I said before, the word has been hijacked, it's like trying to revert to the original meaning of 'gay' or 'fantastic'. If I phoned a friend today and said I felt fantastic and gay, she would assume I have realized I am a lesbian and am delighted about it. I suppose there are dozens of words that have different meanings today from those they had years ago. The word ‘vegetarian’ accurately described those who ate only plants. That was taken over by those who also ate dairy, so in 1944 the word ‘vegan’ had to be created! Language evolves, whether we like it or not! When so many people refer to a person as being ‘obsessed’ I really do think it’s time we considered doing what the vegans had to do, we need to look for a new name for our condition!

I do feel that Frank Tallis could probably have got away with using his example of falling in love, as long as he stressed that the only similarity between that and OCD is the inability to get certain thoughts out of your mind. He should have added that while being in love is usually a wonderful experience, OCD is the complete opposite. To say (when talking about OCD) that most people have a very direct experience of obsessionality when they fall in love, and not elaborate, was damaging to us.

Thu May 27 2010 13:27:27 #
stevieb
Member

Obsession and love are two entirely different things, although they often go hand-in-hand. I think being in love may possibly trigger an OCD obsession, like with me, my contamination issues may worsen if I had a partner.

I'd often worry that I may pass something on to her if I didn't wash my hands, and if I cooked a meal for her, I'd be a bit obsessive about making sure the food I was about to serve her was fresh, clean, and most of all, that it was thoroughly cooked through before I gave it to her to eat. The slightest trace of pink, and it would go straight back into the oven.

But whether it triggers OCD worries or not, the feeling of being in love is a feeling from heaven itself, whereas the feelings which OCD give us are from hell. Simple as.

Thu May 27 2010 14:31:36 #
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I really don't get this - If he thinks Love is like OCD then he seriously needs to rethink what he's saying and how he sees stuff!

I read about the Linden Method and the whole time I didn't believe a word of it. How long has this been around? Has anyone had any success? because last time I checked there was no existing cure for OCD. There are other ways to treat panic attacks etc. but i've never heard of a cure for OCD!

I don't believe any of it ><;

Fri May 28 2010 8:23:35 #
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Philipop, I heard of the Linden Method a few years ago on a forum, often people would ask whether anyone had experienced any benefit from it. I can’t recall any positive replies. Charles Linden claims to have cured himself of anxiety, panic attacks and agoraphobia back in 1996. I‘m not sure when he began selling his ‘cure‘.

Some people do use the word ‘cure’, even a few OCD ‘experts’. However, others contradict this and say there are merely ways, for most, to learn how to experience a good quality of life by controlling how their OCD affects them, but there is no actual cure. Charles Linden claims to be able to stop unwanted thoughts in their tracks. I would love to know how, because no OCD specialist has the answer to that. We can sometimes learn how to ignore the thoughts, but to stop them in their tracks sounds far-fetched. He also claims to be able to remove the core of our anxiety. He states that anxiety disorders are not physical or mental illnesses but behavioural conditions fuelled solely by our own actions. He also says he is 100% convinced of the Linden Method’s effectiveness.

Although I disagree with certain statements Charles Linden makes, his site is quite convincing and I see why people are buying his treatment. I don’t agree that anxiety disorders are necessarily behavioural conditions fuelled by our own actions, because I was anxious from birth. For many of us, anxiety appears to be genetic. However, I do agree that conditions such as ours shouldn’t be classed as mental illnesses.

Steve, Unfortunately I agree with you about love making our OCD worse. You may well be right over what course your OCD would take, but it could also surprise you, as mine did me. I am not a jealous person. However, my OCD latched on to an obsessional jealousy a few weeks after I met my husband. It turned me into someone I couldn’t recognize! I wasn’t just jealous, I was panicking about any woman he spoke to, even a call from his bank, if a female happened to be on the other end of the line. I also obsessed about his past. It totally ruined the first few years of our marriage. Contamination then returned and has badly affected the last 25 years. The jealousy is just a painful, distant memory, no traces of it remain. Where on earth did it come from and why did it suddenly go?! Whatever, love certainly triggered it.

Wed Jun 2 2010 13:57:11 #
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Trudy reminded me that it was Charles Linden who advised those with anxiety to splash cold water on their faces and dance to music.

I have realized that by putting Linden’s name in a search here we can read comments by forum members about the Linden Method.

Fri Jun 4 2010 14:04:27 #