OCD Action Online Forums » Topic: Dithering whether to jump

OCD Action Online Forums » Topic: Dithering whether to jump http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump It's Time to Act. OCD Action provides support and information for people affected by Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Mon, 21 May 2012 16:08:59 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/search.php Parvez Choudhry on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35291 Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:49:21 +0000 Parvez Choudhry 35291@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Hi Tricia Yes, thankfully my memory of exactly how horrible it felt seems to fade quickly. It's not that I forget that a particular incident made me feel horrible but rather that when I recall the incident it no longer generates the same rawness & intensity of pain I felt at the time. I'm definitely going to plod on trying to get used to a lower standard of cleanliness, but I won't push things along too fast for the moment. I don't feel I have any option but to try to improve because my elderly parents are very frail and when they die I will have to face big challenges such as disposing of all their possessions and moving into a new property. Better to get myself better now rather than try to cope when the time comes. Best wishes, Parvez Anonymous on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35285 Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:31:27 +0000 Anonymous 35285@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Dear Parvez, I am very sorry to hear how bad Sunday was. It sounds as if something in your dreams triggered the anxiety. It does seem that most people find the pain of this illness fades surprisingly quickly. I was amazed at a change in a friend of mine, after she responded very well to medication. She admitted that she could no longer recall how painful OCD was. I'm relieved you are doing better today. What's the situation with your therapy, are you continuing or taking a break from it? Tricia x Parvez Choudhry on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35282 Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:13:11 +0000 Parvez Choudhry 35282@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Dear Tricia .... Thank you for your good wishes. Last Sunday I had my worst day for a very long time. It went pear-shaped even before I woke up. I was worrying about something in my sleep and chewed the inside of my mouth, and so I woke up feeling sore. Then almost everything I did made me anxious that I hadn't done it properly and I felt I had to re-do it, which only compounded the problem instead of removing the anxiety. It took me much longer than usual to have a shower and I still didn't emerge feeling really clean. Then I had a fierce and furious battle with my anxiety when I was eating breakfast - I got myself into a vicious circle trying to calm myself down so as to be able to enjoy my food. Of course, the more you try to extinguish your anxiety directly the worse it gets, so I was just adding fuel to the fire, but in the heat of battle you lose your common sense and self-control. It left me feeling mentally bruised and exhausted. I continued struggling for the rest of the day and became very depressed, and I felt so tired by midday that I kept drifting off to sleep. I can't explain why Sunday was so bad - it all happened out of the blue. But thankfully the following day I was feeling a little better, and today I am feeling my usual self. Sunday was a very sobering experience for me. Because my OCD has been fairly under control in recent times, the memory of what it feels like to be traumatised by a severe attack of OCD had faded. But now I feel I can empathise much better with members of this forum. Anonymous on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35267 Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:09:12 +0000 Anonymous 35267@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Dear Parvez, I know you have been facing many challenges of late, and this makes me even more appreciative of all your help and support. I sincerely hope you reap the rewards. Tricia x Parvez Choudhry on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35247 Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:30:03 +0000 Parvez Choudhry 35247@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Dear Nicola, Wombat, Lioness, and Tricia Thank you very much all of you for your encouragement. I doubt I would have taken my recent small steps forward without you! At first I wasn't optimistic these small steps would make much difference because I am only making superficial changes and not dealing with my deep-seated fear of becoming irreversibly contaminated. But now I think these small steps are laying a valuable foundation for helping me deal with my deep-seated fear sometime in the future, because I find myself being slightly less afraid of the worst thing that could happen. This weekend will be 2 weeks since I last washed my bed sheets. I normally wash them once every 2 weeks. But from now on I am going to wash them once every 3 weeks instead, at least until we have another heat wave. When I wash my crockery and cutlery, I sometimes repeat washing an item because I suspect I missed an area or didn't wipe it with the dishcloth thoroughly enough. Part of me thinks I did wash it well enough but another part of me is anxious that I didn't. Usually I give in and re-wash it just to be on the safe side but the last few days I have been resisting the urge and so I have finished the washing up much sooner! But I am still very tense at mealtimes. Just before or during a meal I am prone to getting upset by trivial things (eg. if I accidentally drop a spoon) and I feel distressed and horribly anxious for a long time afterwards. If I drop a spoon at any other time of day it doesn't bother me at all. I know this is minor compared to some of the big issues you are battling against (though perhaps subjectively it may not feel much different). Anyway, I wish all of you success in defeating our common foe. Parvez Wombat140 on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35236 Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:31:59 +0000 Wombat140 35236@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Well done Parvez, you keep making progress and that's all you need to do. Just keep going until you get to the end! By the way, if you're managing to get water up your nose you've got the flannel too wet. At least that's how I do it. Wombat140 lioness on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35198 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:53:44 +0000 lioness 35198@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ First of all, well done Parvez, I think you have made considerable acheivements, even if it doesn't feel like much to you. I also feel like my bedroom is my "clean zone" whereas I almost give up on the rest of the house, because I would have to control other peoples actions in order to keep that "clean" which I obviously can't do! I understand how you feel, there are certain things I cannot even bear to think of doing. If someone were to go into my room after bein on a bus and sit everywhere and touch everything I would be distraught! I have made mental notes in the past of anything people have touched so I can clean it later on! Keep going, you can try with changing some of the food related obsessions later on and start with something else for now. I'm sure you would be able to make enough changes that will affect your life for the better with time. Both of you are not selfish, as when put to the test you know you would help somebody if needed. I've often thought myself, what if I came across an accident and there was blood everywhere but no one else to help. I know I would help becuase the thought of leaving someone to die is far worse then the thought of what I might catch, I could never live with myself. I once considered carrying gloves in my bag in case I came across an accident but then my OCD kicked in and tried to make me feel like a bad person and convince me I wanted somebody to have an accident so I could help them and get all the praise for it. We just can't win sometimes, I know that is not true at all. Parvez Choudhry on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35196 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:24:10 +0000 Parvez Choudhry 35196@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Dear Tricia .... I think you were very selfless because you chose to put the woman's welfare and the dog's welfare before your own welfare. You made a huge sacrifice for the sake of others. Yes, you hoped that other people would volunteer so that you wouldn't have to, but when they didn't volunteer, you didn't walk away from the need. If I were in a similar situation I would hope, just as you did, that others would volunteer before me, and I don't think that's selfish. But I'm not sure whether I would actually help if no-one else did. My remark about me being selfish was more to do with my obsession about enjoying food. I have come to realise that my reluctance to get dirty is principally due to not wanting anything to spoil my pleasure of eating. I dread traces of dirt getting into my food that would impair the flavour. My experiment last Sunday showed me that wearing dirty clothes or having greasy skin doesn't bother me, providing it doesn't interfere with my meals. I didn't consciously choose to have this petty obsession but nevertheless I think it reflects the priorities I put on things and the focus of my heart. I am ashamed to admit I feel more distressed about the thought of dirt contaminating my food than I do about the fact that tonight nearly 850 million people will go to bed hungry, even though I acknowledge the latter is objectively more serious. By the way, this morning I put my outdoor shoes on and trod around in my bedroom in them for the first time for many years. (I examined the soles carefully before doing it!) It made me a little nervous at the time but I feel OK about it now and I don't intend to vacuum the carpet. Could someone teach me how to wash my face with a flannel & soap without getting soap in my eyes and without splashing soapy water up my nose? I feel silly asking this but it's one of those basic skills I need to re-learn. Thank you. Anonymous on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35181 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:11:41 +0000 Anonymous 35181@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Parvez, It sounds like quite an achievement to me. It certainly doesn't seem as limited as you stated. I really hope that this very big step will lead to others. Your remarks about an old lady falling over concerned me, you said you would hope someone else would be there to help her up and added how selfish that made you for thinking that. Helping the lady up would cause you at best considerable anguish. Another person would not feel put out in the slightest. I feel sure if no-one else was around you'd do whatever you could for anyone in distress. Your comments reminded me of a couple of incidents where I wasn't sure how I'd react until put to the test, so to speak. The first incident happened shortly after someone voiced their disappointment in me. I explained about my fears and was told that I used to be a person who cared about animals. A week later, an Alsatian was run over by a car travelling behind me. The driver continued without stopping. A car coming from the other direction did pull up and two men in their thirties walked over to where I stood with the dog. The men said they were happy to take the dog to a vet, but both were too afraid to pick her up. I was also afraid, but no-one else was around, the dog was also very heavy. Does the fact that I was praying the men would change their minds, so I didn't have to do it, make me selfish? I know you won't think so! Alas, they didn't and I was three hours cleaning my car seat etc and another three hours showering. The second incident occurred recently. The disabled toilet at Sainsbury's was out of order. I had gone in the ladies' to wash my hands (a regular occurrence) when a man called out for someone to help his mother to a toilet. Several women were gathered in the area and again I so desperately hoped that someone else would help, so I could avoid being âcontaminatedâ. Wheels of wheelchairs and shoes terrify me and the lady was in a wheelchair. I helped her, because everyone else ignored the man. I then spent an age washing down the side the lady had clung to. I emerged from the toilets with one side of my clothes drenched. I still wish someone else had helped. I can't believe all the others would have been as distressed as I was. Again, that's not selfish, wishing others would have stepped in. I feel the other women were, however, they couldn't all have had good reasons for ignoring the elderly lady. Tricia x Parvez Choudhry on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35177 Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:08:39 +0000 Parvez Choudhry 35177@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ I usually have a shower every morning when I get up but yesterday I just used a soap & flannel at the washbasin and then I put on all the same clothes that I had worn the previous day (even my socks!) But it wasn't a gigantic leap forward because it was only for one day, just as a taster session, and also because I arranged things beforehand so that I wouldn't need to go inside my bedroom during the day (my bedroom is my clean zone whereas the rest of the house is occupied by my parents and is 'unclean' in a normal way). But I felt the experiment was still worthwhile. I found out how difficult it is to thoroughly wash all the grease off the skin of your face at a washbasin, and how difficult it is to rinse soap out of your eyes without a shower. I didn't feel clean all day but that didn't bother me at all. I felt very relaxed. I felt free to sit on any chair in the house and to brush against any wall and to touch any object. I took the opportunity to do some grubby jobs such as clean the mold out of the detergent compartment of the washing machine and other jobs which are more complicated to do if you try to do them and avoid getting yourself mucked up in the process. At supper I unintentionally contaminated my food by accidentally splashing some dirty water onto it, and I was surprised that didn't bother me either. However, that was only a small victory because the contamination was limited to that one meal whereas my stock of food (which I keep in my bedroom) was unaffected. To clarify, I need to explain that I eat separately from my parents and I have my own stock of food which I buy myself, store in my bedroom, and prepare on my own. I would feel very anxious if I knew that I had contaminated my stock of food in my bedroom and created an ongoing problem affecting future meals indefintely. Although yesterday's experiment was very limited, it was useful to show me some of the hurdles I need to get over if I am to adjust to living normally. So I am now going to try to think about ways I can become less fastidious about my morning ablutions and preparing my food. lioness on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35168 Sun, 18 Oct 2009 16:58:49 +0000 lioness 35168@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Oh and I also feel I have brushed against things, then I will mentally retrace my steps to try and remember if I did. I used to cross to the other side of the road to avoid walking past bins. Once when I thought I had brushed past a bin, after I had cleaned up when I got home, I kept brushing past a chair deliberately so I could compare the sensation of that with what I thought I had felt brushing past a bin, then I could weigh up if i thought it had actually happened! Its quite silly when I really think about it! I have retraced my steps when I am out to "check" whether some bit of rubbish had brushed past the bottom of my jeans thus exposing myself to the rubbish which I feared, it really makes no sense! lioness on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35167 Sun, 18 Oct 2009 16:53:27 +0000 lioness 35167@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ It seems as if all our contamination fears are similar in the sense that we have to keep our homes contamination free. I can most things normally when I am out of my comfort zone but I have to shower and change my clothes and clean things I have touched when I come home. I feel the same about food items parvez, I always wash my hands in between opening the bread packet and taking out the bread and many other food items in the house. It is definitely very hard to find any middle ground as you say, any contamination of my house is a bad as everything being contaminated. Say I came in from being out and had used a public toilet and just sat on my bed, then not only would my bed be dirty but anything I touched or anything that went on my bed also. I even wash my hands everytime I take anything out of a drawer or something. How are you getting along anyway? Have you decided to make any chnages yet or are you still thinking about it? Parvez Choudhry on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35151 Fri, 16 Oct 2009 18:10:18 +0000 Parvez Choudhry 35151@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Hi Jerama Thanks for that useful information about Food Hygeine Regulations. I did not know it was against the law to put bags of bread on the floor of a shop. I've seen it happen so often I thought it was what normal people do and that I was just being finicky. I did complain once to the manager of my local supermarket when I saw a member of staff drop an unwrapped bread roll on the floor and pick it up and put it back on the shelf. The manager went through a predictable public relations routine and gave me a lot of old flannel that it was against company policy to have done it and it must have been a momentary lapse and he would make sure it never happens again blah blah blah .... But I am doubtful whether he really did anything about it. From what I have seen in supermarkets this way of handling food is second nature to many people. Tricia wrote: <blockquote>I have found on many occasions I can feel quite comfortable with a situation, only to wake up in the morning in blind panic, wondering how I could have been stupid enough to do whatever it was.</blockquote> Hi Tricia. Yes, that happens to me too. I tend to feel worse about things early in the morning, and so I avoid thinking about my worries when I wake up and I adamantly refuse to make any decisions about acting on my compulsive urges until at least after breakfast. By then I usually see things in a different light compared to when I first wake up. Anonymous on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35146 Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:14:34 +0000 Anonymous 35146@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Dear Parvez, Your description of how you respond to situations reminded me of something a friend of mine said. He shares our contamination fears, by the way. He described an occasion when he became hysterical after delivery men trod in some unpleasantness on the pavement and spread it over his driveway up to his backdoor (fortunately he realized what they had done before they entered his home). Even so, he was hysterical. He sent the delivery men away, along with his new washing machine, and called his father in great distress. His dad picked him up and carried him to his car, because he refused to walk on the ground, and he remained with his dad for several weeks. During that time his father returned to his home to thoroughly clean the front drive and path. My friend responded very well to inpatient therapy, his fears quickly subsided. He told me the secret was to nip a situation in the bud, not to let it âgross him out' (he's American!). Although I have experienced some minor successes, usually this approach doesn't help me. I have found on many occasions I can feel quite comfortable with a situation, only to wake up in the morning in blind panic, wondering how I could have been stupid enough to do whatever it was. That's not to say we aren't identical twins separated at birth! Tricia x P.S. My daughter worked for a short time in the bakery department I was writing about. She is not prepared to divulge the horrors of what she witnessed, but she has told me on no account am I to purchase food from there! Parvez Choudhry on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35135 Fri, 16 Oct 2009 12:00:21 +0000 Parvez Choudhry 35135@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Dear Tricia <blockquote>The lady sobbed and shook, but then within a very short space of time said she was feeling easier as the fear quickly subsided. Apart from my experience as a child, this has never worked for me. Actually, my fear increases over time. I'm not sure if I am very unusual. I wondered if anyone else finds a fear increases over the following hours or even days (actually in some cases it's years).</blockquote> Sometimes my anxiety gets worse but other times it slowly subsides. I haven't been able to fully figure out why it varies. I think a lot has to do with my initial reaction to the incident - within the first few seconds and the first minute. The attitude I adopt during this initial period usually determines how my anxiety evolves thereafter. If I feel apprehensive that my anxiety is going to get worse and that I will spend hours & days afterwards fretting about it, then that is a self-fulfilling prophecy because then my anxiety does get worse rather than better. But if I adopt a gung ho attitude and shake off any nervousness about how the incident may affect me later, then it is easier to nip the anxiety in the bud before it erupts into a prolonged and turbulent battle. Also, my anxiety usually gets worse if I mull over the incident in precise detail and replay it in my mind, whereas it usually fades if I can manage to float through the initial uncomfortable feelings without thinking about the incident in fine detail. Also, my anxiety tends to get worse if I strive for perfect assurance & certainty, whereas my anxiety usually starts to fade within a few minutes if I can content myself from the start with just a flicker of an inkling that the incident was nothing to worry about. Tricia, I'm starting to think you and I may be identical twins who got separated at birth! Your description of yourself running round the aisles in the supermarket to catch up with that man who had the shopping bag on wheels is reminiscent of the sort of things I do. And it's interesting to know that your brain also sometimes deceives you into feeling bogus sensations of physical contact with objects. I am irked but not surprised to hear about the woman poking her finger in her ear while handling unwrapped bread. If people in the food industry are prepared to do that sort of thing in view of the customers, I dread to think what they get up to in food factories where members of the public can't see them. Parvez jerama on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35134 Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:51:02 +0000 jerama 35134@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ [quote="Tricia":1xus1gvi] I hate it when people filling shelves place bread etc on the floor while they rearrange the shelves. I want to say something to them, but haven't as yet. I also stood disgusted as I watched an assistant putting a fresh loaf through a slicing machine in the bakery department. She was touching the bread with her bare hands (as all the staff do) but had been scratching the inside of her ear while waiting for the machine to finish. Monk once said to someone in a disgusted tone âWhere were you raised?!' and I felt like saying the same. Tricia x</blockquote> It is against the Food Hygiene Regulations (in the UK) for foodstuffs to be placed on the floor unless they are in an outer container designed or used primarily for the purpose of transporting food products where there can be no direct contact with the floor and the immediate food wrapping. Most bread in a supermarket will have a wrapping, therefore if the bread complete with the immediate wrapper is placed in a box or container then that container can be placed on the floor provided that the floor is reasonably clean, ie, that it is not visibly dirty. As an example; Cornflakes that are in a bag which is inside a cardbord box cannot be placed on the floor unless the outer cardboard box is itself within a container designed primarily for the purpose of transporting or storage of foodstuffs. Again, the floor must be visibly clean. After scratching the inside of her ear the assistant should have washed her hands, again to comply with the Food Hygeine Regulations. This is not OCD it is the law. What you can do in these situations is complain to the store management and/or to the Environmental Health Department of the local authority who are responsible for enforcing the regulations. It is always worth reporting these things to the Environmental Health Department as they will have to follow them up and even if no action is taken, other than advice given as to the regulations, the shop and people concerned will be reminded of the regulations and be aware that they must comply with them. Jerama Nicx on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35132 Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:21:06 +0000 Nicx 35132@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Dear parves, I understand what you are saying it is a never ending circle. I am still having alot of trouble with public toilets, which is very hard cause I have started a college course and it is hard to go all day without using them. I keep getting to a stage were I want to give it up but I am like you I want to do something. I started little by taking something of mine outside with me, it was really hard I found myself panicking over it. When I had got back and had my shower I had to touch what I had took out with me. I also use to change the hand towel alot so I stared to leave it abit longer each time. I know you can do it let us know how you get on. It might help by coming on here and telling us your task each week, as I found when I told someone I stuck to doing it more. I am aways on here if you need help. Nicola xx Parvez Choudhry on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35131 Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:30:53 +0000 Parvez Choudhry 35131@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Dear Nicola Thank you very much for your encouragement. Yes, I am keen to conquer this because it's such a heavy burden to bear and it's not much of a life. I'm already middle aged without having achieved anything worthwhile and I don't want to remain in my petty world for the next 30 years. 5000 children under 5 died today from prevenatable diseases such as diarrhea and malaria while I am busy worrying about a trivial amount of dirt on my hand. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /> I would like to be able to do more practically to help needy people but my fear of dirt is holding me back. The other day I wondered what I would do if I was walking along the street and saw an elderly woman fall over. Part of me would want to rush over and check she was alright and help her back on her feet, but another part of me would secretly hope that another passer-by would help her up instead so that I wouldn't have to contaminate my hands. Then I realised what a horribly selfish person that makes me. Nicola, how do you manage to confront dirt gradually as you suggested I do? Like you, I find it difficult to use public toilets because of having to touch contaminated surfaces. But after using a public toilet, I can't see any middle ground between going home and having a shower & change of clothes, and going home and not having a shower & change of clothes. It seems to be all or nothing. And if I don't have a shower & change of clothes, then everything else at home I touch becomes contaminated. Parvez Anonymous on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35120 Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:45:50 +0000 Anonymous 35120@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Parvez, I also feel that I have brushed against things. Sometimes I am in the supermarket and am convinced someone has touched me. I look around, and if there is no-one anywhere near, I realize my mind is playing tricks. A funny thing happened to me on Tuesday. A man walked past me quite closely, he had one of those shopping bags with wheels attached to the front of the supermarket trolley (I hate it when they or children are placed inside!). I glanced at the wheels and they were very dirty with thick, unpleasant looking patches (you know where my mind was going?!). I tried to reassure myself that he didn't touch me, but it felt as if he did. My leg could feel the sensations of being touched. He moved to another aisle while I stood in deliberation. I then chased after the man in a desperate attempt to weigh up the height of the wheels to check whether they corresponded to the part of my leg which my brain was telling me was contaminated. At least six inches out, so my brain was lying again! I hate it when people filling shelves place bread etc on the floor while they rearrange the shelves. I want to say something to them, but haven't as yet. I also stood disgusted as I watched an assistant putting a fresh loaf through a slicing machine in the bakery department. She was touching the bread with her bare hands (as all the staff do) but had been scratching the inside of her ear while waiting for the machine to finish. Monk once said to someone in a disgusted tone âWhere were you raised?!' and I felt like saying the same. Tricia x Anonymous on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35118 Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:28:35 +0000 Anonymous 35118@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Dear Parvez, I explained to the psychologist at the Maudlesy, that it was the desperate need to keep my home free from contamination that is my main problem. I felt sure he was going to say that in that case inpatient treatment would be pointless, especially when my treatment plan came with a proviso. I had paid to see my local psychologist privately (not allowed to receive NHS treatment locally any more) to ask his views on a repetition of contaminating my home (he instigated the last disastrous session). He was vehemently opposed to any attempt to do so. I explained this to a therapist at the Bethlem and he surprised me by agreeing to that condition, saying it was still worth contaminating myself and my few belongings away from my home. Normally, patients are encouraged to take work home at weekends, which for those with contamination fears includes contaminating the home in some way. He accepted I was not prepared to do this (my husband and daughter would not have tolerated it). Of course, I have not been able to put any of this to the test. I have an inkling it wouldn't have helped. I actually think I could cope as well as most people who don't share our contamination fears, as long as the dirt was kept away from my home. My reaction, if it were carried out in my home, would be vastly different. So I fully understand your feelings on this. I recall a lady in a BBC documentary whose therapist encouraged her to wipe something she felt was highly contaminated over her sofa and other places in her home. The lady was distraught and I remember actually feeling fear as I watched her. I don't know if the film was edited, but that part didn't appear to be. The lady sobbed and shook, but then within a very short space of time said she was feeling easier as the fear quickly subsided. Apart from my experience as a child, this has never worked for me. Actually, my fear increases over time. I was going to write a new thread about a recent experience, which made me very aware of how that occurs. I'm not sure if I am very unusual. I wondered if anyone else finds a fear increases over the following hours or even days (actually in some cases it's years). I'll describe what happened here. I had promised to do a little gardening for my mother. I spent an hour clearing weeds and planting two small conifers. I found cat faeces in three places in that area (her neighbour has seven cats). My mum helped me and commented on the terrible smell of mess as we were forking through the soil, the dust from which was blowing on me at one point. I was very upset, but continued the work. Later that evening, I was shaking with fear, I hadnât been that bad at the time, however. I had the urge to shave my head, and only facing my husband's wrath stopped me from doing so. The next day I felt even worse, especially about my âdirtyâ hair. It's difficult to judge how I am coping today, a week later, because the problems with the mice have me in pieces again. Thank you for the hug, it was very much appreciated! Tricia x P.S. I asked Frederick Toates (the psychologist who has OCD himself) whether he thought treatment at the Bethlem would help me. He was honest and said it was impossible to tell. He thought it was probably worth trying. Parvez Choudhry on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35117 Thu, 15 Oct 2009 14:47:15 +0000 Parvez Choudhry 35117@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Dear Lioness <blockquote>Sorry I called you Parveez instead of Parvez, just noticed!</blockquote>Thanks but no need to apologise! Actually, I've just noticed I misspelt your name too: lionness rather than lioness! <blockquote>How do you veiw contamination parveez? Is it that you think you will pick up some kind of disease or more psychological?</blockquote>Well, I'm not worried about picking up a disease. I am aware that people who rarely wash their hands still stay healthy most of the time. I also know that I am covered with bacteria and viruses however rigorously I wash my hands. My fear of dirt is to do with the yuckiness of it. My chief revulsion is urine and faeces, and I am scared of getting it in my mouth. I do wash my hands before I eat but that doesn't cut out all the risk. For example, in order to eat a slice of bread or a sandwich you have to handle the bread with your bare hands. Just prior to touching the bread your hands have to touch the bread wrapper. I have seen shelf fillers in my local supermarket put bags of bread on the floor in the aisle as they stock the bottom shelves. The floor probaby contains particles of dog faeces, toxicara worm eggs, urine, bleach disinfectant, weed-killer, blood, and so on. Admittedly they are present in tiny quantities but I still find it frightening to think of these particles transferring to the outside of the bread bag and then later transferring onto my freshly washed hands as I take a slice of bread out of the bag. One of the most wearying aspects of my OCD is I frequently experience worrying notions - for example, that my hand or clothing accidentally brushed against something and became contaminated. I feel confused about whether I really did feel a touch sensation or just imagined it. Often the logical part of my brain is fairly sure I didn't touch it but at the same time the visceral part of my brain screams at me that I did touch it. I think my mind often plays tricks on me but that doesn't guarantee that all these incidents are mere bluffs, and so it takes huge willpower to side with the logical part of my brain against my gut feelings. After such an incident I go over it in my mind examining what I felt and trying to discern how genuine my perception was and analysing the repurcussions if it were genuine. Thank you, Lioness, for taking the time and trouble to share your thoughts with me. Parvez Nicx on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35113 Thu, 15 Oct 2009 14:15:46 +0000 Nicx 35113@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Hi. I have gone and still going through the same problem you have. Don't go at it all at once its best to take each step at a time. set yourself little tasks each week to do and don't worry if you can't do them, some weeks you can cope better than others. It sounds like you really want to get over it and that is half the battle. Be nice to yourself and reward yourself for doing it. Take and keep a dairy cause sometimes its good to look back and see how well you have done. I know its really hard but if you want to do so much you can. Let us know how you are getting on and if you need any help. I know you can do it. Take care. Nicola xx Parvez Choudhry on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35111 Thu, 15 Oct 2009 13:55:14 +0000 Parvez Choudhry 35111@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Dear Tricia No, your ramblings are not pointless! I really appreciate your kind and caring attitude, and it really helps me to read about your own struggles and strategies, since the nature of our OCD is similar. So thank you! I don't think in-patient treatment would help me. I can function very well in a dirty environment outside my own home and my own bedroom if I have the opportunity to shower and change my clothes before returning to my clean nest. I am sure I could undergo any exposure to dog excrement as an in-patient at the Maudsley (apart from eating it) because I knew I could go back home afterwards, clean myself up, and carry on as before. The reason I try to keep my body, my clothes, and my possessions free of dirt is to prevent any traces of dirt getting into my food and thereby spoiling the flavour or damaging my alimentary canal. In itself, traces of dog excrement on my clothes or in my home wouldn't bother me if I could still ensure it woudn't contaminate my food. <blockquote>I'm a few years older than you and I am realizing I am becoming too old and too tired for all the effort required keeping contamination at bay. My physical health is deteriorating, I wasn't sure if my heart was playing up or if I was having a form of panic attack, but my lips were blue, I felt faint and I had pins and needles all over. I just can't keep this up!</blockquote>I am very sorry Tricia. I wish I could say something helpful but I can't think what. But please know you are in my thoughts, and I am now sending you a platonic hug through cyberspace! Parvez lioness on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35101 Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:13:06 +0000 lioness 35101@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Sorry I called you Parveez instead of Parvez, just noticed! lioness on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35100 Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:11:51 +0000 lioness 35100@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ How do you veiw contamination parveez? Is it that you think you will pick up some kind of disease or more psychological? I say this because althought I used to fear disease, I know now that it is practically impossible to catch serious disease from touching normal things, other wise half the population would be dead or ill, especially when you see how dirty some peoples habits are! I just don't like the thought of traces of urine that might have brushed onto my clothes in a public toilet getting onto my sofa or into my house, even though I know that it is impossible to really catch anything that way, its the thought of it. I can use public toilets when I am out or do most normal things and not wash my hands obsessivlely, but I have to keep the inside of my house clean and so all my rituals are done at home. I do try to keep these to a minimum and make efforts not to lengthen them in any way. I think for you, changing the compulsions even slightly will maybe not make a huge amount of difference unless you start to veiw your idea of contamination differently. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is easy at all, but you have to accept that even if someone had not washed their hands after going to the loo, no harm will come to you. As long as you wash your hands before you eat which of course is common sense and has nothing to do with OCD you will be fine. It is the thoughts we are really trying to run away from, I once ate a chip that fell off my plate onto the table at a pub and all sorts of things went through my head like "what if it wasn't wiped, what if someone got drunk and danced on the tables with dog poo on their shoe, then I might get worms, oh I really should go and "research" the symtpoms!" really silly things like that, which of course, "researching" brings up even more obsessing . I ended up thinking if I just hadn't of done that, I wouldn't be worrying now but the thoughts do get less as you ignore them. I'm not necassarily saying you will be miraculously cured from OCD, I think for some of us that is impossible but you could get to a stage where you can enjoy life more then you are now. I hope I am not sounding preachy, you need to do what you feel comfortable with, whilst still pushing yourself forward, but I do think you can improve. I find the biggest thing that helps with my OCD is thinking what would someone without OCD do in this sitation and try and follow my logic instead of how I feel, although I follow my heart too. I try to distinguish between false feelings that OCD is creating and genuine feelings, andit does help me. Take care Anonymous on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35096 Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:48:59 +0000 Anonymous 35096@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Parvez, I've done it again, replied as you were posting a message. I feel exactly the same as you over the contamination issue; the hand shaking and not washing etc. Also, like you, I truly don't know what's normal any more! Anonymous on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35095 Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:43:42 +0000 Anonymous 35095@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Dear Parvez, I know most people would encourage you to go for it. Lioness, is more cautious, as am I. Like Lioness, I actually reached a point where I decided death from the germs I so feared was preferable to a life of fear. This approach, along with my own form of exposure therapy, worked like a dream. (I know you experienced that period of respite after you were driven to despair). Like, Lioness, my OCD was severe and my hands were red and sore. Within a few weeks I appeared normal, hands healed and all rituals stopped. I know I have spoken to you about this before, and you know I was a young child at the time. Exposure has never worked for me since. Maybe because, like you, the fear doesn't involve harm any more. Some would say that makes it easier to face. I understand their logic. If I don't believe any harm will come to anyone, why am I in such a state? Apparently, a fear without a consequence is harder to treat and I suppose that is obvious if you think about it. I also empathize completely with your dilemma. Those who might say âgo for it, what have you to lose', perhaps don't understand the consequences of not being able to reverse the contamination, if the fear doesn't lessen by exposure. Yesterday, I faced the weekly grocery shopping. I'm a few years older than you and I am realizing I am becoming too old and too tired for all the effort required keeping contamination at bay. My physical health is deteriorating, I wasn't sure if my heart was playing up or if I was having a form of panic attack, but my lips were blue, I felt faint and I had pins and needles all over. I just can't keep this up! My answer to my own problems would be to attempt therapy at the Bethlem as an inpatient. My family still opposes this and therefore I will continue as I am until my physical health does worsen and then I will be housebound. I'm not sure how you would feel about inpatient treatment. Would you consider a trial period, when you have time off work, living away from home and facing contamination then? If you react badly you will not have a contaminated home to face. Each of us is so very different, Parvez, even those of us with the same fears. I know my life is almost constant fear and were it up to me I would try almost anything. However, even my psychologist warned me not to attempt to contaminate my home again, because that backfired badly in the past. Having said that, the mice have been exposing me to contamination of late. It hasn't worked, because I am more ill than ever. I believe I have already said that a psychologist at the Maudsley told me exposure alone will not work for me. He told me I need to change my way of thinking, the way I view excrement. I have tried very hard to tell myself it's merely food which has passed through an animal. I lecture myself for hours trying to analyse why the hell I am so afraid. I am no nearer to finding the answer. Have you ever tried hypnotherapy? I wanted to but no-one was willing to hypnotise me!! I am so sorry, Parvez, my ramblings are pointless, but I do care and I would truly help you if I had any idea what to say for the best. Tricia xx Parvez Choudhry on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35094 Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:43:01 +0000 Parvez Choudhry 35094@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Dear lionness Thank you so much for your reply and your advice. I am sorry you have had such a baneful time yourself with OCD but I'm glad to hear some aspects of it are better for you now. I wish you brighter days ahead! It's good to meet someone like yourself who can relate to my own experience. I take your point about not jumping in the deep end but inching my way there gradually. However, I don't know how to do that with this particular phobia. For example, as part of my job I sometimes have to meet sales reps and it is customary to shake hands with them. Not everyone washes their hands after using the toilet, and a recent survey indicates an alarming number of people have fecal matter on their hands: [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7667499.stm:2cq5vzpo]click here[/url:2cq5vzpo]. So after meeting a sales rep I always wash my hands when no-one is looking - just to be on the safe side. If I don't wash my hands after shaking hands with someone, I won't know whether I have acquired any obnoxious dirt on my hand. And if I have, I won't know whether I have acquired only a microscopic amount or a more substantial amount. Anything else I touch before I next wash my hands would become contaminated with this unknown quantity of fecal matter, and since I wouldn't know how much it was, there would always be the possibility that it was a large amount, and so everything I touch would then be potentially very contaminated. So just by not washing my hands once (a minor alteration to my usual rituals), I would regard myself as being as dirty as if I didn't wash my own hands after using the toilet which is equivalent to jumping in the deep end. If I do decide to jump in the deep end, I would not know where to draw the line. It would be abnormal and perverse to go too far in the opposite direction, but what is a happy medium? Everyone draws the line in a different place. I have been following such excessively high standards of hygiene for so long now that I don't know what would be a normal way to do anything. Until I had settled into new habits, I would have to keep questioning how to do things 'normally' and sometimes I would probably have 2nd thoughts about specific decisions and would go back to clean up things which I felt I had contaminated too much by other people's standards. That sounds like a mentally exhausting and physically wearisome and time-consuming way of life. And if I did reduce my own standards of cleanliness, I would feel morally responsible not to pass on contamination to other people whose standards were higher than my own. It seems like a very tricky path to negotiate. Parvez lioness on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35077 Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:10:38 +0000 lioness 35077@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Hi there, I have had OCD noticeably myself for 10 years but had it in childhood as well to be honest just mildly. I know how time consuming and draining all these rituals can be, I used to spend 2-3 hours in the shower at one time! I totally see your point about things becoming so contaminated that it would be impossible to get them back to how they were. Its possible that could help you to recover somewhat but it is also possible you could get worse. However, you have lived with this illness for such a long time and you can improve because you have coped before and you will again. My contamination fears are significantly much less then they used to be, partly due to "jumping in the deep end" as you say. I got so fed up one day i just thought I'd actually rather die of some dreaded disease I've contacted from touching something dirty then live my life like this. I would say I was fairly severe then, my hands were always red and sore, I spent literally hours in the shower, washing my hair and myself over and over, I panicked about everything all day long, so I am not saying it was easy, but I did slowly improve until I got to the point of being almost "normal" about the fear of contamination. The OCD did seem to morph after that unfortunately and take on a more pure "O" form. You would barely know I have OCD from the outside now as I have hardly any physical compulsions, more just little "ways", but I have mental compulsions instead where I ruminate and mentally check for hours on end. I do still have contamination fears, I have to clean things that other people wouldn't bother with, like anything I buy, I clean with antibacterial wipes. This kind of thing has become a habit and doesn't even cause me anxiety anymore, I sometimes wonder if it would bother me not to do this or I just wouldn't care but I'm too scared to try. Anyway, to get to the point, I wouldn't try and do everything all at once, you would find it very hard to cope. Maybe just try to do something different, something small and see how you feel. You probably will feel anxious but I'm sure you can do it, think of the freedom that you could have and not the fears you do have now. I hope I haven't waffled on, and I hope this helps somewhat. Take care and good luck <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /> Parvez Choudhry on "Dithering whether to jump" http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/topic/dithering-whether-to-jump#post-35076 Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:32:33 +0000 Parvez Choudhry 35076@http://www.ocdaction.org.uk/forums/ Hello everyone I haven't had time to post anything on the forum recently due to being busy at work (I don't have a computer at home so I am restricted to accessing the internet during my lunch & tea breaks at work) but I've still been thinking of you. As some of you know, I am terrified of dirt, especially human and dog excrement, and I'm also obsessed about not getting harmful chemicals in my mouth such as limescale remover. I am not worried about germs but instead I am averse to the sheer obnoxiousness and muckiness of poo, and I am frightened of damaging my taste buds and impairing my ability to taste & enjoy food. Consequently I take extreme precautions to try to keep myself and my clothes and my possessions free from contamination and I lead a very abnormal lifestyle. There are many ordinary things I avoid doing. For example, my place of work is about 2 miles from where I live and I have always walked to & from work and I've never taken the bus or accepted a lift from a colleague because I don't want to risk getting my clothes contaminated by touching the bus/car seat. I never take an umbrella when it rains because you can't put an umbrella in a washing machine afterwards. So when it is raining I just get very wet. There are many other abnormal things I do, including avoiding nearly all social interaction. I have no friends apart from a few special people I know via email & Facebook. I have been like this for over 20 years. I am now 44 and I am weary of this way of life. My body is not as agile or energetic as it used to be and it is getting increasingly irksome to carry out my lengthy cleaning rituals. I am also finding it very strenuous mentally to maintain a perfect shield against the contamination I dread so much. If I let my guard slip even once then everything becomes potentially contaminated because you can't stop dirt spreading to everything you touch with a dirty hand. The constant mental strain to keep my personal environment at a tolerable level of cleanliness is very burdensome. I am getting too old to go on like this much longer, and I am now tempted to abandon my abnormal lifestyle and just mix with the 'dirty' world like a normal person. I am still just as averse to poo as ever I was, but the mental strain of constantly maintaining a rigid leak-proof shield against it is more burdensome than even my fear of poo itself. It's a case that my fear of the fear of poo is worse than my fear of poo. (Does that make sense?) However, it would be a radical shift in my approach to life to step out from behind my safety barrier and try to live 'normally'. I admit I am scared of taking the plunge in case I can't cope and want to scurry back into an ultra clean environment but by then it would be too late because after the first step I will inevitably have contaminated too much to be able to return to how things were before. I am dithering about what to do. I guess most people would tell me to 'go for it' but I am nervous of getting myself into such a mental state that I have a breakdown or worse. I would be very grateful to hear your opinions pleaese. Thank you.